Permission to Kick Ass

Creating a better business model to support families with Meredith Ventura and Lindsey Baker

• Angie Colee • Episode 164

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I LOVE this episode. I sat down with Meredith and Lindsey of The Village Center. These two kickass entrepreneur moms are disrupting the myth that you have to do it all alone as a parent and a business owner. We challenge the cultural norms that set parents up for burnout, reveal why believing in your vision is not just woowoo nonsense, and talk a surprising amount about nipple cream. If you've ever felt like you're getting it all wrong, you'll love their refreshing perspective on how success and struggle are not mutually exclusive.

Can't-Miss Moments from This Episode:

  • The simple reframe on competition that will stop you from limiting your own growth...

  • What Meredith and Lindsey did when the DREAM venue fell through...

  • Perhaps my favorite quote from any of the interviews I've done: "I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to prove myself to people who don't believe in what I'm doing"

  • How to get unstuck when you find yourself trapped in an anxiety spiral, wondering if your business will ever work (thank Meredith for this ingenious perspective shift)

  • One thing you can change TODAY to start increasing your sales right away (hint: it's a lot easier than it might seem)...

Lindsey and Meredith's bio:

The Village Center was founded in 2023 by Lindsey Baker and Meredith Ventura with the vision of creating a comprehensive wellness center that catered to the needs of families and individuals in the local community. Inspired by their personal experiences and a shared passion for holistic well-being, Lindsey and Meredith set out to establish a nurturing and supportive environment where people could find physical, mental, and emotional support under one roof while building a community. 
 
Lindsey Baker has led 3 different non-profits over 15 years, Lindsey’s work has always been centered on community engagement and bringing people together. She recognized the importance of connecting with other parents and saw a pressing need for resources, support groups, and a safe space where families could come together. 

Meredith Ventura is a massage therapist, energy healer, creative, and mother who sought to build a practice that was patient-centered. With her expertise in massage therapy and a passion for wellness, Meredith believed in the transformative power of holistic healing modalities. Her commitment to creating personalized and effective treatments made her an ideal partner for the Village Center. 

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Angie Colee:

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, angie Coley, and let's get to it. Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today are my two new friends. I think this is only the second time in the podcast history that I've interviewed two people at once, so this is going to be particularly fun. So, from the Village Center are my friends, meredith Ventura and Lindsay Baker. Say hi, hello, hi. So tell us a little bit about the Village Center and your business.

Meredith Ventura:

Well, we are a family wellness center. Our business is kind of separated into two sides. We have a family side and a wellness side, and they're in the same space, but essentially our goal is to create a space where caregivers, moms, dads, anybody who is looking to relax, really don't even have to be a caregiver, but anybody that wants to come in for a wellness service, such as massage, therapy, yoga, reiki, energy healing. We're still working out the kinks of who we are going to, what kind of practitioners we're going to have in this space, but in addition to that, there's another side that's focused on the family, where you can bring your child to participate in a. How would you describe the? I mean?

Lindsey Baker:

I would describe it as you leave your kid and go take care of yourself yes, it's one of the main points.

Lindsey Baker:

And then it's also an indoor play area, so similar to a gym daycare, where you drop your kid off and they're taking care of while you work out here. You drop your kid off and you get a massage, or you can come with your whole family If it's rainy out, if it's too hot out, if you're looking for an interactivity and participate in an interactive play space together. I'll say that the big thing for me is thinking about this as a third space. So how do we activate this space to bring caregivers to get together, connect them to one another and to connect them to their larger community, nonprofits, elected officials, resources in their community, because we know when you have little ones, it's like your head is down, you're literally just trying to get through bedtime and then you crash yourself and some parents even crash with their kids. So the idea is, how do we get them to like, look up and give them the opportunities to connect with one another and the resources around them while they have their kids at their youngest?

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, and just, I think, focusing on not only all of those things but, like you said, getting your head up and taking care of yourself and remembering that self care is really important. Even though you have kids and you're prioritizing them, prioritizing your family, you have to prioritize yourself and in my experience, that opens up an easier way to prioritize everything else.

Angie Colee:

When I'm prioritizing myself, oh yes, I love that message, especially since, as women, we get that message right that you are not the priority, and to prioritize yourself is something that is shameful. I think what is shameful is that there are so many people in the world that have been pressured to pour from an empty cup. There's nothing there for me to pour. I don't know what you want from me other than to like, give you know, be the giving tree, which is like the saddest story I've ever read.

Lindsey Baker:

And also the expectation of mothers in America. Yes, for sure.

Angie Colee:

And there's a whole like, there's a layered component to that too, Like if you're a mom, there's that set of expectations to like, give and go above and beyond. Compound that by the fact that in entrepreneurial spaces that's even accelerated right and I know that not everybody that comes to your space would necessarily be in the entrepreneurial space. But for the folks on the show who are both parents and business owners, this expectation of I give of myself to the business, I give of myself to the family, what's left for me afterward I'd really like to reverse the dynamic. What do I get from all of these things? And then how can I use that to build my business and my family? That should not be something that is guilt inducing, and I will die on that hill.

Lindsey Baker:

We'll die on that hill with you.

Angie Colee:

Yes, the three woman army out there we're recruiting. Come on, come fight with us. Tell me a little bit about what led to this idea. I'm really curious. Want me to take that part.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, I mean I think, tell your part and then I'll step in when it's.

Lindsey Baker:

Yeah, so, um, my background is in nonprofits. I've been leading nonprofits since 2008. And I was just really thinking about what comes next for me. I'm currently the CEO of a statewide nonprofit and you know I love it and I don't want to leave it anytime soon, but I'm trying to build what comes next, and so I I don't know.

Lindsey Baker:

At its core, I think that community engagement is really central to the work that I've done in every organization I've led. It's central to who I am as a person. I think you know I hit 40 and all of a sudden, I have all this self-awareness and understanding of, like, how do I really want to show up in the world and what do I want to do? And so, um, I visited an indoor play place, uh, when I was visiting family in Texas, um, with their kids and my kids, and I just sat there and I was like I could do this and if I did this, how would I add on to it? You know, how could I make it actually like an important part of the community, supporting other businesses, supporting community organizations, bringing caregivers together, just like I said?

Lindsey Baker:

So I was just sitting there thinking about it and I came back and I was talking to Dith here and said you know, one of the things that this model had in Texas was they had a practitioner in the space. So they actually had um. I think it was a speech pathologist and I said you know, I I'd love to have one that has something like that where it draws people into the space. And I'll kick it to Meredith now. She said something along the lines of well, I've been thinking about opening my own um massage practice.

Meredith Ventura:

I don't know if that's yeah, well, I think one of the um, the other things you were texting me while you were there and I think one of your concerns was well, how am I going to make money? And I was like, well, I offer a service that makes money and I've been thinking about opening my own practice, and it would be. It just felt like it really fit into the ideas that I had in my head of having my own business of massage therapy and then incorporating all of these other things that you wanted to incorporate. It was, and then through our research we found that it doesn't really exist anywhere. So it just felt. It just felt right on so many levels.

Angie Colee:

Oh, that's so great and I like I'm trying to just think of how to articulate what I want to say next. But there's a big opportunity there. I feel like you're really onto something that is special. I know that, to bring it back to the entrepreneur space, there are a lot of folks that can't participate because they don't have childcare.

Angie Colee:

That was one of the ideas that I had in the back of my head at one point. What if there was a service at these big business events, in these conferences, with hundreds of people or thousands of people, that was taking care of kids? I think it's related to what you guys are doing, but a little bit different. I don't know, maybe I'll do it someday, maybe we'll work together to bring that to fruition. I don't know what that looks like, but I love this idea of everybody that it takes a village to take care of each other. Kids get to play it out, and it's not just about parents taking the kids to a place where they can get all the energy out, so that I can go home and just have a moment to stare at the wall.

Lindsey Baker:

Angie, I just want to say because the people who listen to your podcast are entrepreneurs there are two models in Maryland that I know of, one in Baltimore and one in Frederick, where it's a co-working space, where they actually have a similar model where you can bring your kid. They can, I think, either be with you or be in a space where they're taking care of. There are two models for that and I just want to plug that for any entrepreneurs who are struggling to balance that.

Angie Colee:

Oh yeah, I'm going to look them up and make sure that they're in the show notes too. I think it's important to talk about that because it takes a village to raise a family. It also takes a village to support a business as it grows. No amount of just muscling through the painful growth phase is going to make this thing be a success. If you're burnt out, you're burnt out and that shows in the messaging, in the work that gets done and it sets you back. Ask for help, damn it. That's basically we are here to help. Glad to see you are building Awesome. Where are you at in the process of building this Deep sigh.

Lindsey Baker:

We have a space. We're hoping for a soft opening in April and a grand opening in May. Yeah, we were looking for a space for, I think, about a year until we found one. There are lots of hiccups with that, lots of challenges, but we're excited to have a space. That ended up being probably, of course, because my realtor always tells me when it's meant to be, it'll be. It's probably the best space I think we've looked at yet.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, Not only the space itself, but I think the landlord and the other people that are within the little building that we're in it just made the most sense and feels like that's exactly what we wanted.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, well, that's awesome. That's fascinating because I've never had to find a building. I'm blessed in that. My business model is very it can go where I go. It's very portable. I'm fascinated by this whole concept of finding the right space. What was that journey like for you?

Meredith Ventura:

It was a little tough. I think we ran into people that didn't want to take a chance on a startup, people that didn't really want to have children in the space that they were listing what else? I feel like there was another thing.

Lindsey Baker:

I mean from my perspective. I'll just say, in the work that I do every day, currently in my job, I'm a leader. I'm a recognized leader in the state, regionally, some national circles. I am at a point in my life where I don't want to have to prove myself to people who don't believe in what I'm doing. I say that because I think that was part of the challenge. I think that if we had tried to change who we were or change our vision, we would have found a space sooner. But we showed up authentically. I think that's really served us, because the space that we've landed in is the right space for us, it's the right landlord, it's the right community. It's because we didn't change who we are. I didn't show up in a suit. I didn't show up with a portfolio of laminated pages to show them. I showed up with what we believe we can build and what our experiences have brought us to be able to do. I think that was really important.

Meredith Ventura:

We showed up with our kids to a lot of places we want to look at.

Lindsey Baker:

We might have just qualified us from one space.

Lindsey Baker:

We might have scared different people off, but they're not bad kids, they're just kids and so if you don't want kids in your space, we don't want to be in your space. As hard as that lesson was and we left in Meredith. We didn't make it to the parking lot. Meredith was already like well, it's not for us. I'm sitting there mourning because I thought that wasn't the space and really upset about it. But of course she was right, it wasn't meant for us and the next place was the right place.

Angie Colee:

Yes, oh, wow, that's literally the next space, literally. Thank you. Ok, so we've all seen, I'm sure by now, that Corny thing online with the. There's the two panels with the guys that are digging through a tunnel and one quits and walks away about like half a foot away from the diamonds and the other guy is keeping going and I feel like you just embodied that of like the keep going, the keep digging for diamonds. How easy is it to get attached to? Damn, that was the space that I really, really, really wanted, and they said no, and this feels like a great big old failure. I'm getting all of the nose to keep your head in the game. Wow, yes, I don't know if there was a question. There was, that was just a celebration.

Meredith Ventura:

But I think that definitely relates to what we went through, because we had two meetings at this place that we were really.

Lindsey Baker:

Let's name them, can we name them, no, ok, fine, check the show.

Meredith Ventura:

Although the place we were looking at that we thought was going to be where we were going to end up. We had a second meeting and I got there pretty early and I was walking around and was like this is it, this is where we're going to be, just really taking it all in and then complete 180 after that meeting to being like this is not it, this is not where we're going to be. And definitely I did feel disappointed, but at the same time I think, through all of the work and the things that I've been through in my personal life, it just brought me to a place of acceptance that this isn't it. This isn't it for a reason. There's something better to come and we just haven't found it yet and we just got to stay strong, keep the course and we'll get there when we get there.

Angie Colee:

Mm-hmm, that feels like a recurring theme. Over the last couple of weeks, I feel like in a lot of business circles I have found myself talking about this thing. It's not quite the right phrase, I haven't found it yet, but we called it a willful delusion, cheerful delusion. Like you, have to bring the belief to the table first, even when other people are trying to convince you that you're crazy, that your idea will never work. It requires some almost unrealistic levels of optimism of like. No, I believe in this vision. This is coming true. Whether you believe in it or not, whether you throw your support behind it or not, I know. Is that something that you've encountered in your growth journey 100%.

Meredith Ventura:

That's skill set right there. I think, just I think if just in my life in general, if I don't believe in something, it's not going to happen. If I don't like have that in my head, talk to myself a certain way, write it down, put it out into the universe and express that this is what I want, then it's not going to happen. I mean not to get too into spiritual things, but I truly believe if what's meant for you will find you. And I forgot the other thing that I was going to say these are my two or three movies, my four movies I forgot the second.

Lindsey Baker:

We did one of these.

Meredith Ventura:

No, I want to keep that Now I'm really like lost because now my thoughts are all messed up, but you were saying.

Lindsey Baker:

it's a core belief, that you have to believe it, you have to manifest it, you have to write it down, you have to put it out into the universe. Then the way that I function is I will research everything, I will ask everybody that I ever knew for their resources, their insights, I don't know. I would say 100 meetings in the last couple of months just trying to prep to get us open. It's how I function is like let me just grab all the potential information and get all the expertise. I am not the person that wants to Google. I am the person that wants to talk to you about your experience, what you learned. I feel like it's a great balance in that way.

Meredith Ventura:

Just because that's wildly different than how I function. It's a U-B, but that also makes our partnership and how we work together it works together, yeah.

Angie Colee:

Well and that's funny To your point, meredith I feel like a lot of people that are starting a business come into it with the opposite stance.

Angie Colee:

They may not even recognize that that's how they're thinking about it, but they're looking for proof that this is a good idea, versus coming into it believing that this is a good idea and just taking the steps. I feel like that's self-sabotaging on an unconscious level, because they're going into this going well maybe. Here's a hypothetical example I've got a day job and I want to start this freelancing thing. I'll put some feelers out and I'll try and get some work on the side and we'll see how that goes. I feel like see how that goes is the kiss of death, because you're not actually putting all of your effort and your heart and your soul and your beliefs into that and it shows in the way that you talk to people and your commitment levels and the quality of work that you turn out. So it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy of like see how it goes. It's not going very well. Maybe I wasn't cut out for this business, and then the downward spiral starts.

Lindsey Baker:

I think one of the things we've talked about a lot is like whether or not we think this is going to be successful. Right, I mean you should.

Meredith Ventura:

Right, which brings me back to my previous point that I forgot. I believe everybody has the ability to consciously create your reality. So if we don't believe in our business and we don't think it's going to be successful, then it's not going to be successful, where Lindsay has expressed her fears at certain points through this process and I'm like there's no way that I can imagine this business not being successful. Because even if you took our business apart and you had a massage therapist right, there's a need for that in society. People will pay to get that service, as the same people will pay to take their kids to a place to play. So bringing those together, it's just creating two successful businesses that could exist on their own and we're just bringing them together. So in my mind, I'm like there's no way that it's not going to be successful. And then, but also bringing that into, really believing that and bringing it into fruition is important.

Lindsey Baker:

And I think in my mind it's like I just worry. I'm the person that's like I just want to make sure that we've done everything we possibly can to be successful. Yeah, but I agree, like I don't even think about the two separate business models would be successful on their own. That's really interesting perspective when I think about it. I think about like I think I'm very good at saying this is a problem that I have. I bet other people have this problem. I am not the person that says, oh, this is something wrong with me and it's only me and it's a symptom of me. I really think if this is a problem I'm facing, other people are facing it and so I really feel that way about this. Like, of course, other moms have problems, like prioritizing themselves other caregivers, not just moms and we've seen that, like when we have this conversation with primary caregivers, no matter their gender or how they show up in the world. It's consistent. Oh my gosh, yeah.

Lindsey Baker:

That's an amazing idea, I'm like yeah, I know the kind of idea.

Meredith Ventura:

I have.

Lindsey Baker:

But, like you know, I mean in all seriousness I think we've also seen and this goes back to some of the bumps that we hit along the way people who clearly in their lives were never primary caregivers and who didn't have a sensitivity to the needs of primary caregivers, kind of just like looking at us sideways, like why, why would that, why would that be something that we would need? And I think there's a very immediate reaction in me, almost gut reaction, of like you're not the one, like you're not going to get it. I don't need to explain it to you. If this is not something that's not even remotely on your radar, then it's not a conversation we need to have further, because you know you, just you're not. It's not time that needs to be spent.

Meredith Ventura:

Like if you don't get it, you don't get it, and that's fine. That's fine, it's just not this.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, oh gosh. I just finished recording a podcast episode before this one where the lady she made an analogy of like your business journey is like you're driving a bus and people are going to hop on and hop off, and I just thought that that was so brilliant, because there is this tendency especially like in my field, with coaches and experts and people who build like a personality brand of attaching to that outcome and taking it really personally. When somebody goes well, I think our time working together has come to a close, or I think that that offer is not for me. Well, they weren't going to that. Stop Like, let them get off the bus, don't hold them prisoner, jeez, yeah, I love that. I love that too, and I thought there was something.

Angie Colee:

There were a couple of things that I wanted to circle back and unpack that I thought were really great. You, meredith, were talking about things being kind of like woo right, and I think there's some actual brain science to this too, because if you believe your business is destined to fail, you're going to start unconsciously taking actions that lead to that certainty, because your brain likes to be right about these things, and that's what leads to this unconscious self-sabotage that we talk about where, like, if you believe you're destined to succeed in this, you're going to approach your whole problem solving methodology completely different. It's a different energy on the woo spectrum and it's also bringing your brain into alignment with what you believe is destined to happen. I freaking love that. And the other one you were speaking to this Lindsey was looking for evidence, and I think that that's what you were doing.

Angie Colee:

You called yourself a warrior, but you were looking for evidence that this is possible, this is doable, this is needed. And taking the focus off me I talk about that a lot me versus the mission. When I'm focused on me, when I'm the center of the universe, it's easy to believe that everything is falling apart and this is destined for failure. But when I focus on the mission, like you said so brilliantly, I can't be the only one struggling with this. I know I'm not the only one struggling with this. Other people need this too. If I'm suffering, that just changes the whole dynamic of what we're trying to build. I love it.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah.

Lindsey Baker:

Yeah, I feel like I'm trying to think of why I'm like that, and so my I have too many degrees in history, and I was trying to explain to my husband the other day that I actually don't remember many historical facts at all, because that's not what history is about. Studying history is about understanding how to analyze sources, but it's also about understanding trends, understanding the similarities between different points in history, and I think that maybe part of that is why I never think this is a me thing. I always think this has happened before, this is happening elsewhere. It's not a singular experience with one person. So, finally, those degrees in history have paid off.

Lindsey Baker:

It's a great question.

Angie Colee:

I think that's fantastic. Well and I mean to the point that you made earlier, meredith like these are two. There's a lot of need for this. I feel like a lot of people on the early entrepreneurial stage will will think of it the opposite way. There's a lot of businesses out there already doing this, so why would I even try? And I think like we got to destroy that, that notion of you have to be the first, you have to be the best, you have to have zero competition. Like competition is a good sign. It means that there's more than enough business for all of your competitors and there's plenty for you.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah that's a great point and I think I feel like at one point we did talk about like different competitive businesses and being too close to different places and how that would affect us, but I feel like I said something similar. There's a need for this, there's people are going to come and if, as long as we're doing the right things to take care of the clients that we do have, then that's what's important.

Lindsey Baker:

Yeah, I think it's interesting. So I've only found evidence of this model in one other place and that's in Canada. And you know, I, I think, I think it's a great like this specific model. But we're going to Columbia, which is full of wellness places. It is full of spaces for kids. There's a really nearby indoor indoor play area called the Playsium at Columbia Mall, which I've been to with my kids several times. But also Columbia is full of families. Yeah, like it's full of families who want wellness services, who want activities with their kids. And you know, geographically we're located like right off 29, right off 32. So it's easy to get to. But just in terms of who's there in that community, there's, I agree, like there's a need. And even if there's other businesses filling different parts of our model, I don't, I, I think it's fine, I think that we're going to be in the right place.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, absolutely, we are in the right place, yeah.

Lindsey Baker:

Manifest.

Angie Colee:

Well, I'm with it. That ties into what you were saying earlier, lindsay, about okay, well, you just don't get it for it. It's easy, I think, to set up in the wrong space with the wrong people, right, and if they don't react the way that we had hoped, if we're super attached to that outcome, then we start to doubt our own vision and whether this is going to work where it was really just a case of. I told this to new copywriting students that I've taught before. Please stop trying to sell salad dressing to people who don't eat salad. You've just made your job twice as hard. You've got to convince them first that salad is a thing that they should really enjoy. And, by the way, now that I've sold you on salad, I'm going to sell you on my dressing as the perfect accompaniment. Just go. Hey, you like that salad? Have you ever thought of trying this? This is perfect for that.

Angie Colee:

Your job is a lot easier if you focus on the people who already get what you're trying to do, versus trying to overcome their objections, and I'm with you. I'm at that stage where I don't need to convince you. This is valuable. If you don't see it, cool On to the next. There are 8 billion people in this world and somebody is probably going to get it. It's not you. Yeah, this is fantastic. I've got so many potential questions that I could follow. Yeah, setting up in a space for families. You've only found evidence of this in Canada. Did you visit it to get a sense for it, or was that more validation for the idea that you had? Yes, I'm on the right track.

Lindsey Baker:

I'm from the nonprofit world. I'm from the museum world. To be more specific, in the small museum world you borrow. I can't tell you. Many times I've gotten an email saying hey, can I borrow this resource? Take it, put your name on it, change it, use it however you want. What I was really looking for, the research I was doing, is like who else is doing it? How do they frame it, how do they price it, how do they work it out? How do they advertise, talk about it, those types of things. I started following the it's called Recharge and Replay in Ontario. I started following them on all social media, just so it's in my feed. I start to absorb it. Think about it when I think about our business. Sending it to me, send it to Meredith. Annoyingly, on multiple platforms we did talk about visiting it. I'm not actually saying that we're not going to visit it one day, but we just didn't get around to it yet. I need to get my youngest one a passport and then I'm heading up to Canada. I also don't have a passport.

Meredith Ventura:

Oh man I got to get on that so you can take fabulous cruises.

Angie Colee:

I don't know if big boats are your thing, but you need passports for a lot of those these days. But I love that you said, lindsay, borrow and adapt, because that ties into what I was talking about earlier, with a lot of people feeling like they need some unique, special thing. That has never been. They're trying to be the Elon Musk's of the world. There can only be one jackass like that. Thankfully, most of the rest of us. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. It's a wheel, it's a good one, it exists, it already works. Why do you need?

Meredith Ventura:

to reinvent something else when you could just build?

Lindsey Baker:

on top of that. That's fair. That's a great point. Yeah, I think what's been interesting for me as like a nonprofit person is we borrow all the time, we're super generous, and I just don't know what the vibe is in the business sector, like can I borrow from what people are doing? Are they going to be offended by that? And so that's still. I think just switching sectors all together is also a learning journey for me, like what are the norms here? What's acceptable? How can you reach out? Like I know the norms in the nonprofit world, I don't know them in the business world.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, I think every sector has its own quirks to it. There are certainly ones that are super protective, super insular, because their own proprietary system is the thing that they've got going for them, and in others they believe in this concept, which I also believe in, of collaboration instead of competition, because my background is in copywriting, as in advertising, marketing, marketing strategy, all that stuff, it would be very easy for me to go well, I market in these spaces and I am not sharing my leads with other people because that's ridiculous. But the fact of the matter is there's more business than I as a solopreneur can possibly handle and there are certain personalities that I just do not get along with. But they certainly need help and I think that they'll probably get along with this person over here versus me, I'm a little bit more laid back. I like to swear a lot, I like to do campaigns that probably push people out of their comfort zones a little bit. Whereas there's this more straight-laced person over here, there's this more numbers-driven person over here.

Angie Colee:

I can introduce you to either of those guys. I'm going to give them business Makes me look like a winner, right, I'm a well-connected expert. I know person I can hand it off to. I look like the person with the leads to my business buddies and if I've got a referral fee baked into that, well then I'm making money for passing away work, which is fantastic. So how that ties into what you were saying, I think just be on the lookout for people that fall into that second camp more so than the first camp. If they're closing their doors to you because they see you as competition cool, they're also a closed down, closed-minded, fixed mindset. That's what I was looking for kind of business that's almost limiting artificially their own growth because they don't see the possibility in the competition.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, and I think to that point for me as a massage therapist. I've worked at different businesses where we have a collective group of clients that's not necessarily specifically my clients, and if another therapist can do something that I might not be good at or I might not want to do, referring them to somebody else who's better suited to fit their needs is very important, because I don't want to keep all the clients to myself, especially if I know somebody can do something better than what I can do or do something a little bit differently that might be more beneficial for this client. I feel like I always put the client before myself and taking care of their needs before taking care of just me, having clients back to back to back to back.

Angie Colee:

I love that. That is a brilliant insight that I just want to, like circle punctuate, highlight for everybody that's listening. There's two parts to that. One was like there are surfaces that I don't offer or that I don't want to do, which is totally valid way to do business. You don't have to do anything just because people are offering you money. And two, it's about the client and their needs. Okay, so their needs are for this thing that I don't offer. Do I take them anyway? And both of us suffer.

Angie Colee:

I don't want to do this. They don't want to pay me for this. They can tell that I don't want to do this. Might as well. Send them to somebody that wants to do this is going to take a great job, take great care of them, do a great job and everybody is happy from this outcome. It's not selfish to pass off business. It's not selfish to decide I don't want to do this thing. I know I'm not going to take your money to do this thing. That's not my focus. Like. I just want to dispel some of these myths.

Meredith Ventura:

And hopefully that person will do the same in return and give you clients that are better suited for you and give you business that maybe they can't handle if they have too many clients of their own. So I think karma, you know you give people business and ideally, in a perfect world, they're going to give you business in return.

Angie Colee:

I'm glad you mentioned ideally, because I think there are certain situations where people won't like, they just don't or they forget. That's not how their brain works. Like I try and take positive intent and interpretation in every situation. But it's also a danger zone to like get into a tit for tat type situation, like, oh okay, I sent you this lead, I expect this lead in return. That's not the way it works. Ideally. It works that way. But also if it works with like I sent you five referrals and you sent me one, or you sent me a place to speak, great, cool, that's. We got some reciprocation there. And if it continues over time where I'm sending you more than you're sending me, well then maybe I just reevaluate where I send my leads in the future, and on and on it goes.

Lindsey Baker:

I'm going to be like a total nerd and quote Adam Grant. I'm a huge fan and he had a recent post where he talked about when you do a favor for someone, and especially in the work world, it's not a transactional thing. You're doing it because you want to do it. So, in this example, because you want the client to be taking care of, you want to ensure that your fellow massage therapists have the clients that align with their skill sets and not because they're going to push a client back to you and I think that's like I don't know. I feel like that just vibes.

Lindsey Baker:

So much for the whole idea of the village center. Right, like, the whole name that we have is like the village center. It takes the village. Let us be yours. Like, no, when you're a village, you know I've helped Meredith out and Meredith helped me out. Do we have a scorecard? Like, have I said you know how many times have you done this? How many times have I done this? No, right, I do it because I want to show up for you and I want to make sure that you're taking care of and that Ellie's taking care of, because I love you both. Like, similarly, you want my kids to be happy and me to be happy, and I think that's just like central to our work.

Meredith Ventura:

And I think one of the things we talked about is like why are we doing this? Why are we? Why do we feel like we're being called to do this? And it's not because we want to be like filthy rich and make a ton of money. Obviously, we hope that there's financial success from this, yeah, but we're doing this to help other people who don't have the support systems that we have. We're doing this because we want to do it, because we see the need for it and because we see the potential benefits that we can offer to people in community. And it's not there's no scorecard in what we're doing. It's simply because we want to be doing it.

Lindsey Baker:

Yeah, I feel like that's such a good point of like. We actually just significantly want to make it easier to be a caregiver. I think we want to make lives better at the most basic foundation and therefore make communities better, and I feel like that aligns so much with the nonprofit work that I've done and it aligns so much with how I felt since I've become a mom. I mean, I changed completely when I became a mom. Everyone does and again to be a nerd, npr recently put something out where they talked about the transformation. There's a name for it that I don't remember, but it's similar to when you are a teenager and you go through puberty.

Lindsey Baker:

The transformation when you become a parent, especially a mom, is a chemical transformation and you actually like things fundamentally change.

Lindsey Baker:

And we don't talk about that with families and there's no there.

Lindsey Baker:

And I feel very strongly that the norms in American culture and however you know we can define that a million different ways but the norms in the American culture that I exist in is that you are going to do it all and you are going to do it and not complain, and you are going to be happy for the opportunity to work full time and parent full time and do all of the things with no help and no support. And ever since I became a mom, I was so thankful for the help that I got and the advice that I got that I just started and I'll say this like I am the person that, like, as soon as you have a baby, I'm like are you going to breastfeed? Not to like pressure you, but if you are, I'm going to send you this nipple cream because it's really amazing and that was, I think, like the foundation of me really reaching out to new moms and I think that's I mean, not the nipple cream, but they're reaching out is one of the ways that Meredith and I actually got closer.

Meredith Ventura:

I think, yeah, 100%. And it's funny because you did that for me and now I do exactly the same thing. I will send you nipple cream if you are going to breastfeed, because I who's going to tell you about?

Lindsey Baker:

that cream I did not know.

Meredith Ventura:

I did not know that I was going to need nipple cream and I really did. And it's, it's, it's one of the things that people don't talk about. And then, once you know about it, you're like how did I not know about this?

Angie Colee:

I'm over here cackling because my inner marketer brain is just geeking out like that's going somewhere in the. It's going to be a bullet point or something like that. Who's going to tell you about the nipple cream? That is just like you're welcome, oh, my God.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, that's fantastic. We're saving lives, we're transforming businesses and we're saving the breast, like all multi-purpose show. Yeah, and then, before I got distracted by nipple cream, I was thinking about this idea of like brownie points this, you know, capitalist American exceptionalism that you mentioned, where it's like I have to do it all and I have to be grateful for it and I can't complain. I don't know where the hell this myth came from, but like I want to set it on fire and toast marshmallows over the top of it, because I'm tired of this. You don't actually get extra brownie points for getting all the way to the end without help and going like haha, did it all? Screw you guys. No credit to anybody.

Angie Colee:

It's a myth, it's BS. Nobody gets anywhere without help. It's as true in families as it is in the business world, and I'm really just tired of this idea of you know that saying was no man is an island, right? When did that become a thing of the past? It's still true. We don't get anywhere without help, without support from our friends, without support from our colleagues and our communities, and that's. I'm on my hill again, ready to fight the masses. But we need the village center. We need it.

Meredith Ventura:

I also think to everything that you had mentioned. It's also okay to not be okay and it's okay to ask for help, because it's everybody needs help, and it's just acknowledging that you're not okay and that you do need help is so hard to do, Because it's not.

Lindsey Baker:

I don't know because we've been sold. This is actually the model. This is the model that makes sense in America and this is the model that you were raised in and that you will raise your kids in, and I think that for me, I just don't believe it. Not one part of it, not at all. I don't at all ascribe to the idea that I should be responsible as the primary caregiver, as the mom, I should be the one also going to work. It doesn't make sense. It's not a model that works anywhere else in this world and I just I don't believe it. So anything I can do to disrupt it, to find ways to support people, either like through my own personal efforts of sending them nipple cream, or like us creating the village center, I mean it's disrupting that idea that you are on your own.

Lindsey Baker:

Good luck you know, maybe the odds be ever in your favor.

Angie Colee:

Mm, hmm, I'm so envious of you saying that, like I don't buy into it because I fell for it hook, line and sinker and that's actually the impetus behind this show. Like I was so scared when I came up with the idea for this that nobody was going to want to come on. Because who wants to come on as a business owner and say here's how I failed, here's how I messed up, here's the hard ugly discovery that I had on my path to success? Right, like that's why I'm so grateful that you're here. You're talking about the vision and the struggle, but holding true to your beliefs and all of this inner work that we have to do to make a business successful. And this, this idea, came about because I stunted my own growth as a business owner for years under this myth that we're talking about here that you have to do it all alone. Nobody else is struggling with the same things that you're struggling with and if you don't figure it out, you're a failure, you're a loser. Shun the, the unsuccessful one, right?

Angie Colee:

I was at a business conference and I saw somebody on stage and I always had this unconscious belief, like I had never articulated it to myself, and fans of the show will know I've told this story before but, like I believed, this person up on stage was the shining star. They have all of their stuff figured out and I am over here perpetual screw up. Who will never aspire to the level of the stage right? And then I happened to overhear that person come off the stage, sit at the bar with their buddy and say I just lost my biggest client and got hit with a lawsuit and I have no idea what I'm going to do.

Angie Colee:

And that was the moment that it all clicked for me, and it took me a couple of years to get the show up and running the way that I wanted to, but that's what I really wanted to talk about. I wanted to be entrepreneurs at the bar, talking about business reality, talking about the dreams and the vision and getting good and rancy, about the things that need to be destroyed, and also talking about like this is really tough and I don't know what to what I need to do. We're going to bring it full circle. Ready, have you tried this nipple cream? This is really helpful.

Lindsey Baker:

But can I just say that like I feel like this show is so much more impactful than one man I'm assuming he was a man on a stage saying how successful he was and then going back off stage at the bar and saying, oh, I fucked up and this is the problem that I have I feel like it's so much better to show the dirt, to show people the struggle to validate that they're not alone in losing a client and being told no, because kids showed up in the space, like I don't know.

Lindsey Baker:

I feel like it's so much better and it's something that I've always tried to practice as a leader To show the warts, to show the bumps and to show how life overcame them or didn't, because sometimes you don't and that's okay too and I feel like I have always found that I can't get on a stage and pretend that everything I've done is perfect. It's just not how I show up in the world and I feel like I'm really glad that this show exists to like push back on that person on the stage who just whispers the issues that he's facing rather than talking about them out loud.

Meredith Ventura:

Yeah, not only to show that it's one not okay to be not okay, but then to show how you did overcome it, or like how you can get around the obstacle. There's so many layers to that, yeah.

Angie Colee:

Success and struggle are not mutually exclusive, and that's like that's some of the BS that I'm on a mission to destroy. The overnight hockey stick growth journey is complete and utter BS. It's not even a myth. Like anybody that experienced that, it was pure luck and you cannot build your business on luck. This is not the lotto and, by the way, to win the lotto you actually have to play. So this is fantastic. I have loved this show. I can't wait for it to air. Thank you both so much and thank you Shout out to Kyle, who helped us with all of the fantastic setup. We're there.

Lindsey Baker:

Speaking of the little do good video, is the person who did this whole setup, because we're gonna be on Zoom in my old Apple earphones if it works to me, so thank you.

Angie Colee:

Yes, great work. This has been fantastic. Tell us more about the Village Center, more where we can learn about you guys, and if they're local, hopefully I'm gonna send a whole bunch of people there.

Lindsey Baker:

Yeah, so we're gonna be in Columbia 1-0-2-0-3,. Hannah Gerlaine, Columbia, Maryland, Suite 102. And we have a website which is still in draft form if you visit it Thevillagecentermdcom. And we also are on Instagram and Facebook as a surprise, and no one? There's about a million Village Centers. We are the one with the coolest logo, so you will know it when you see it. Oh there, it is Right here.

Meredith Ventura:

I can't turn it the right way.

Lindsey Baker:

But yeah, we're getting out there and on the socials and eventually maybe TikTok, I don't know, but yeah, we haven't talked about that.

Meredith Ventura:

We haven't talked about that.

Lindsey Baker:

That could be, a failure, we'll see.

Angie Colee:

An adventure in the making. That's what I say. It's fantastic. I'm gonna make sure that there are clickable links in the show notes so that people can follow you directly. If you are in the Columbia Maryland area, highly, highly recommends you go check it out. Please enthusiastically share about your excellent experience. Let's build a community and a village together. Thank you so much for being on the show. I appreciate you.

Lindsey Baker:

Thank you for having us. Oh God, we didn't even plan that.

Meredith Ventura:

Thanks for having us Appreciate it very much, Angie.

Angie Colee:

That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick-ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high octane dose of you can do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Permission to Kick-Ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, spotify and wherever you stream your podcast. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.