Permission to Kick Ass

Figuring out who (and what) you want to be with Linda Perry

• Angie Colee • Episode 187

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Today's guest is Linda Perry, and her story of transitioning from a high-powered legal career to following her true calling is both inspiring and refreshingly real. Spoiler alert: self discovery ain't all sunshine and rainbows, but that's kind of the whole point. We rapped about recognizing our ingrained thought patterns and why mindset work is never really done. Grab a glass of wine (or three) and get ready for a conversation that'll leave you pumped to kick some serious ass.

EDITED TO ADD: a note from Linda once I shared the live episode with her:

"The FUNNIEST part of this - 187 [Angie note: the number of this episode] in criminal defense terms is another way of saying a crime of murder. It’s the statute in California and is a common number for talking about a murder case. Lol."

Can't-Miss Moments:

  • The surprising reason new habits and routines might not be sticking (hint: how you're thinking about them makes a huge difference)...

  • Spoiler alert: much like house and car maintenance, mindset isn't a "one and done" fix. Linda has some insights on how to make it part of your regular practice... 

  • Talking to myself is... normal? Linda and I have a fascinating conversation about casually chatting with the voices in our heads (it's probably not what you're thinking)...

  • Saber-toothed tigers vs. cyber-toothed tigers: Linda breaks down her simple mindset shift for combatting fear when it's got you paralyzed in place... 

  • The worst question you can ask yourself if you want to solve problems (and what to ask instead in order to actually fix things)...

Linda's bio:

Linda Perry is a mindset coach & business strategist who works with individuals, business owners and their teams become more self-driven and move toward 7-figure success. So many people get stuck on a plateau and don’t know how to move forward, Linda uses a mindset first approach to support individuals and teams to tap into their core motivations, strengths and frees them from their blocks so they can soar past 7 figures.

She is also a recovering attorney & copywriter and uses her skills of persuasion to show business owners how to make the impact they desire. Linda works with clients through her private coaching, group courses and workshops. She is also the lead business instructor at Levin Life Coach Academy where she teaches new coaches how to build a thriving coaching practice.

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Angie Colee:

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine-figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Coley, and let's get to it. Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my friend, Linda Perry, or Linda Peri, as I like to say. Hi, Linda.

Linda Perry:

Hello, thank you for having me.

Angie Colee:

We're already starting this call off in a little bit of a ridiculous mood. Okay, so, for anybody seeing the clip, you get to see my handy dandy little pre-flight checklist, which always includes step number nine confirm name pronunciation, because names are important. And then I'm looking at Linda going. We're old friends, I've been on your show, we've taught, we've been on panels together Like we've done all kinds of stuff. Please tell me how to pronounce your name, linde Pari.

Linda Perry:

It's the French version. We love it.

Angie Colee:

Fits in with the new European destination. So tell us a little bit about your business and what you're up to.

Linda Perry:

Simply put, I mean, I'm a mindset coach and so I work with individuals, businesses, business owners, and really I always love to say I'm there to remove the head trash so that you can actually get to those goals, whether it is goals that are personal goals for your business, goals for your team. I talk a lot about helping businesses, individuals, teams, become more self-driven. All the head trash drive the bus and that, essentially, we really want to come from a place that's truly intentional, so we can achieve all those great things that we see for ourselves and for our businesses inside of us, and so my job is to help you get there.

Angie Colee:

I like that. Not letting it drive the bus. And how often are we just kind of in autopilot mode with these old wounds and stories and thoughts and, you know, mistaken beliefs, assumptions, just driving the bus straight off a fricking cliff?

Linda Perry:

Yeah, like, and it depends on how much work you've done on yourself. I suppose, like back in the day when I before I started this work and when I was still a lawyer, I mean there was no me driving the bus. It was all beliefs, it was shoulds, it was have tos, it was everything else but me driving the bus. And so I think a lot of us spend a lot of time on autopilot. I think I even still catch myself on autopilot going, whoa, where'd that come from? So I mean it's easy to get there.

Angie Colee:

It really is. I was just talking with somebody yesterday about that that one of the biggest breakthroughs that I had in working on my own mindset was that recognition counts. And what I mean by that is, if I've started to slip into an old negative thought pattern, if I have woken up in an anxiety spiral or something like that, recognizing that I'm there and that's what's happening counts. Because for perfectionist types, for overachiever types, hello. We tend to go if I don't get this perfect, then it doesn't freaking count. Recognition counts, because that's the first step to going okay. I see you, this is a pattern, this is a fear we've experienced before. What did we do last time? You can start to get to where you're talking yourself out of it or at least allowing it to pass, instead of bottling it up.

Linda Perry:

Actually, recognition counts way more than we think. So we were talking about this in my group yesterday, because I think we all have these patterns that become so automatic, so ingrained, that we don't even realize that it is a pattern or that we have any control over it. So recognition, I mean, that's really what mindset work is. It's about recognizing and shifting gears. It's not about I'm going to forever get rid of my fears. I'm going to forever get rid of thinking I'm stupid. I'm going to forever get rid of all this shit.

Angie Colee:

Sorry but like whatever you want on this.

Linda Perry:

Cool, but like it's like we think that mindset means, oh, none of this is going to bother me. No, no, it's really actually about that. Oh, look at that, how cool that's showing up again. Let me shift gears, let me stop, let me not follow that behavior and actually choose the one that's in alignment with where I want to go, and that's mindset work.

Angie Colee:

I love that distinction, because there was one woman that I worked with shout out to Dr Julie Helmrich where I would ask her. So I've talked about it on the show before. It's not a secret. I have diagnosed severe ADHD, both inattentive and hyperactive, and for me, hyperactive presents well, you've probably seen me in person. I climb things and I also talk about a mile a minute, hence why I host a talk show. But the result, end result of that is I don't create habits the same way other people do. Everything is something I have to think about from, you know, morning routine. I don't really have a morning routine. Sometimes I even forget to drink coffee. That's how weird it is.

Angie Colee:

And so she and I were working on a morning routine and I was telling her why is this so hard? I mean, I get that that we're working with my brain here and my brain does what it's going to do. We can only go so far as far as that's concerned. But she goes you are treating this like a what was the word she used? Like a project instead of a process, and I went that's interesting, Tell me more. And she goes yeah, a project has a start and an end. It's kind of like running a race and crossing a finish line. This isn't even a marathon. It's continuing to run for the rest of your life, and if you think you've crossed the finish line, well then, yeah, I'm not surprised. That you're struggling Doesn't mean you're bad. It just means that you're thinking about this like it is a project with a start and an end, when it's really something you're going to be doing for the rest of your life.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, I think that that's it's a great distinction, and I think when you label it a process, something changes. In other words, you allow data to come in and you allow yourself to look at the data and you go what do I have to learn from this data? And, okay, what do I need to shift? Let's try that out and wait. That's no longer working, and who knows why it's not working, or maybe I just need something different, and so let's try something different. And I think process allows for experimentation, which is huge when it comes to growth and mindset and stepping out of patterns, and so I love that idea of process.

Linda Perry:

I was thinking about this. You know, and I'm super, you know, disciplined, and have morning processes and you know what They've changed over the years and they change from time to time and I've raised a son who has ADHD and actually my daughter does as well. They have extreme processes, but they have to keep tweaking and thinking and, because it's life law, this isn't something that's going to work. Maybe it's going to stop working, maybe it only works for a while, but we have to be okay with that. And I think we're like, oh my God, halt. Nothing's working. That's not true, it's just that right now. Maybe you need something different.

Angie Colee:

That's so interesting. It's a parallel. The idea that popped into my head when I was listening to you describe that is how often we can get into a danger zone with like even cars and houses. Right, I fixed that problem already. Well, it's probably going to need to be fixed multiple times and maintained in between the fixes throughout the lifetime of that thing. It's the same with these processes we create for ourselves.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, and I think we think, okay, I've been through that before, I made that mistake. Why am I making it again? I should be further, I shouldn't have to be dealing with this, I have to be better. And the reality is we don't actually recognize what better looks like.

Linda Perry:

This, as we started to talk about, isn't about getting rid of something, it's like going hey, this is happening, and the time that I sit in the mistake, the inaction, the yuck, the whatever it is, is shorter and that's all that matters. Right, like the whole point is, is crossing the bridge between where we are and where we want to go, and in order to get there, sometimes it's just a matter of shortening the time that we face the same challenge. Right? Oh, there's my stupid belief holding me back again. There is my you know procrastination or my perfectionism showing up. That's funny. I know what tool now to use so that I can actually cross that bridge, and I think that's that's the trick. Really, it's not about you know, I'm here on this planet to you know, evolve into this perfect being. No, I'm here to learn some lessons, obviously, and keep evolving and actually growing toward having that life that I want. That, I think, is the important lesson.

Angie Colee:

I really I love that takeaway and I remember talking a while back with my dad about something similar. I am prone to these anxiety attacks Even when life is going really, really well. It just seems to be the way that I'm wired and that's why I'm so big on recognition and just celebrating when you recognize it. So I've had issues where, like if business was going slower, I'm freaking out over something. I'll wake up in the middle of the night already fully alert and in the middle of an anxious cycle.

Angie Colee:

Like my brain's been thinking about this in the sleep and now we're awake and we're thinking about it, and one thing that has really helped me is to sit there and go okay, let's breathe, let's bring the heart rate back down. Okay, I hear you, brain, let's breathe, let's bring the heart rate back down. Okay, I hear you, brain, I hear you. What's going on? We're worried. Is this really helping right now? Is waking up in the middle of the night, being stressed out over something I can't do anything about right now, really helping? This can wait until morning. A good night's rest is going to help us work on this in the morning, whereas being sleep deprived is not going to help at all. So like, how about we just put on a sleep story? Yes, I talked to myself. How about we do this? How about we put on a sleep story? We breathe deep a little bit and we see if we can't get back to sleep.

Linda Perry:

But what you're doing is super important is. You know, we had this conversation also again yesterday. My group and we're talking about identity in this last month and we all think we have this one identity. But what you've recognized is that we all actually are made up of parts. I'm a huge fan of like internal family systems work where we all are made up of different parts that are again driving the bus and depends on which you know sort of young part of us is in charge at the moment is really where we're going.

Linda Perry:

But the thing is is is when we wake up, you know, and I'm not really prone to anxiety, I have high anxiety. I have. It's how I'm wired. My whole life I have had panic attacks. It's really fun and super fun.

Linda Perry:

And what I recognize is is that there are some really young parts that are still activated at times. And so having these conversations with yourself, recognizing that again, it's not necessarily the self that's in charge, but there's that subconscious processing of a part of us that's very young, that is looking out for danger I mean, we haven't evolved very much since caveman times. We're still looking for like everything to kill us, basically. And so recognizing that and doing that psychological distancing actually helps because what we recognize is that, okay, I don't have to follow that voice, I don't have to actually live that voice. Right now I can bring the temperature down.

Linda Perry:

Most of us, especially those of us who live in a dysregulated state, need to do that more often. So having conversations with yourself may sound silly, like I encourage clients to have their parts talk and they're like not there yet. And like I get it right. Like it can seem weird to have parts talk and it is a way to get yourself back down so that you can be in charge. So fear isn't the one that's driving the bus. Self-doubt isn't driving the bus. Like, if you follow that voice, you're more apt to make bad choices around clients, you're more apt to make bad choices around the direction of your business. You're more apt to make bad choices in your personal life, like all of that. And so I think what I think talking to yourself is really healthy.

Angie Colee:

It's, it's made one. One thing that I wrote down while listening to all that is that and this is the pattern that's been coming up over the last week, especially with the people that I work with feelings aren't facts, right, they're indicators. Something needs to be paid attention to, something, something needs to be worked on right. But it's not a fact, it's just a strong feeling, and you can examine these things, and I'd never articulated this to myself before now. So thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Angie Colee:

I think the reason that I talk to myself like that in my head, like all right, this is what we're going to do, is that it allows me to go. Okay. So that is fear talking almost like that that Pixar movie inside out. So fear's over here running her fricking mouth, and that is not helping the situation right now. Could we bring in some calm over here, like calm, let's, let's, let's get this situation under control. You need to be driving the bus, that one needs to be over here, I don't know looking for saber tooth tigers, because that'll keep them occupied, and I think for me that feels important because I don't have to assume that identity of fear. I don't know if that even makes any sense outside of my head, but like putting distance between me and that thing that is fear inside my head. Talking to me really helps.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, there's a couple things I say about that, because I spend a lot of time talking about fear, because I used to be driven by such intense fear fear that somebody would find out that I wasn't. You know, as incredible as I put out into the world, right Like I wasn't perfect, that I wasn't this facade or whatever it was. And you know, I stayed in relationships that weren't good for me, all this stuff, fear drove the bus, and so I had to really learn how to make peace with fear. And I want to say two things that stood out for me when you were talking is is one, facts aren't facts sometimes. Talking is is one facts aren't facts sometimes.

Linda Perry:

Fear has a really great way of disguising, you know, fiction into fact, because fear will tell you well, look, you fell yesterday and you fell the day before and you fell the week before. So that means you're going to fall tomorrow. But fear has no crystal ball. Fear cannot predict what will happen tomorrow. Fear, in fact, has no ability to prove anything other than show you what's happened in the past. And the truth is, is the past is really no indicator of the future? We think it is and fear thinks it is. So we tend to think that whatever fear is talking about is actually factual. So I often say facts aren't always facts.

Linda Perry:

Now, fear is really interesting, because fear actually is. We all want to push it away, shove it away, put it somewhere in a corner. However, what I have learned is is that when we start to have conversations with fear, that we treat it like an old friend, a misguided, sweet old friend. It quiets down.

Linda Perry:

I often will say when fear shows up ah, there you are, my old friend, thank you for trying to protect me, cause that's actually the role of fear. I mean, as you talked about, it was like the saber tooth tigers. Well, now they're the cyber tooth tigers, and so we're always out looking for what danger there exists, right. So I always say fear, thank you. But I got this because fear is generally some really young part of us that learn to cope with the world by going danger, danger, danger, and so for some that's inaction, for some it's hiding, For some it's overdoing, even right, like, oh my God, I got to stay busy, busy, busy, right. And so we want to just start to change that, because If we follow fear, we're not following our vision. If we follow fear, we end up all of a sudden going wait where the hell am.

Linda Perry:

I Like this was not the coordinates I put into my GPS, right, Because we followed something else and that's pretty normal. So I I love that whole conversation with fear and I do like the idea of bringing in common, because you know, fear needs a buddy with fear and I and I do like the idea of bringing in common, because, you know, fear needs a buddy, exactly.

Angie Colee:

Uh and I. I never thought of them until this very conversation as like characters in that movie inside out, but now I feel the sudden compulsion hello, adhd to write out some sort of play where I figure out what my inner characters are. There you go, just turn it into fuel, some sort of creative exercise. So I'm I'm curious. We're going to throw a curveball like how, what got you into this business? Did you always know that this was something you wanted to do, or was this a big transition?

Linda Perry:

Hell. No, I mean, this is a huge transition. I mean, I was a, you know, federal criminal defense attorney for 17 years, so I was wired to solve problems, tell people what to do. You know, I hung out in prisons. It was great, but that felt like, finally, like a sweater that was shrinking on me and I, you know, I'd actually wanted to be a writer early on and I had these parents who were very well-meaning, they were immigrants, they were doctors, and they said, ok, you need to get some higher level of education, so you need to become a doctor or a lawyer. And so I faint at the sight of blood. So law school it was, and while I loved so much of the law, I just was like this isn't working.

Linda Perry:

And then I got divorced in 2005. I blew up my whole life. I had two small kids and it was really a check the box kind of girl. Until then I went to law school, I had the beautiful house, I had the two kids I had. You know, somebody called me and my ex-husband the perfect. And I woke up one day and said, oh my God, I'm miserable. I was suffering from severe anxiety, severe panic attacks. Life was just not okay, and so I ended up blowing up my life and there was a book on the shelf back in bookstores Debbie Ford's book, spiritual Deports and I picked it up and it kind of saved my life. It allowed me to recognize how I was actually co-creating the life that I had.

Linda Perry:

And then I started to follow Debbie's work on and off for years and then, somewhere you know about 2010, I got remarried to my now husband in 2011. And I started noticing similar patterns and then I was angry. And then one day I grabbed my daughter's arm when she had sort of disappeared in the park and I left a mark after digging my nails because I was so scared that she had left, and I went, you know, like holy shit, that just scared the hell out of me. I was so angry, so almost directionless, if you will, and not sure how to get out of it, and watching my second marriage, already just a few months in, not going the way I want it. And so I I said I looked at my husband and I said I think I need to do some work and I started to actually go into Debbie's work and then she started training she was actually training coaches and I dove into a year long program and it literally changed my life. I became a Ford coach. It was her last class before she died.

Linda Perry:

Debbie wrote nine bestselling books. She worked with Deepak Chopra. She was. Her books are great and she's known for Dark Sides of the Light, chasers and the Right Questions. Those are two of my favorites.

Linda Perry:

But essentially I became a shadow coach, which is based on Carl Jung's theories, and I looked at my husband. I said I don't want to leave the law and he said okie dokie, and he really supported it and it was definitely a change. And I think over the last decade that I've been a coach, I've also been a copywriter. In that process I think it's taken me time to grow into what this is. And it is now my purpose and my life love.

Linda Perry:

Because when I left the law there was a part of me that I still rejected like this. That part that's like well, you're Linda's kind of direct and tough, but I thought there was no business in a coach having that. But that's actually not true. And so over the last decade what I've learned is is that this work is life-saving. It has gotten me through. We've lost all four of my parents. My ex-husband has actually passed away. I had to maneuver my children through all of that. You know we've had tough times.

Linda Perry:

Every time I come back to this work to help me go, how do I move through these challenges with greater ease, with more confidence, and how do I actually build a life that I want? You know, you mentioned earlier, like you know, my name, linda Pari. I mean, we're joke because I'm now living in Europe. That was a 30 year dream. That wouldn't have happened if I didn't do the work on myself to allow myself to move closer and closer to my vision. And so was.

Linda Perry:

You know. I know that was sort of long winded to say I did. I always want to do this. No, and you know it, it always been interested in deep feelings, deep emotions. How are we wired? And so, for me, I'm a little obsessed at this point. We're wired I mean, I read everything on it but it's really at the aim of giving people the voice that's inside them already. That's inside them already because we all sit and live this life where we either wear masks, we're living somebody else's version of our life, or we're denying ourselves what we know we are worth, and I think, for me, just being able to change one person in the right direction. That's awesome. I mean, that's what this is about. So a little long-winded to get there, but yeah, that's kind of how I got here.

Angie Colee:

I think that's great. I was furiously writing notes, like I normally do, and one thing that I wrote down was like the power of the right idea at the right time. I know that I have dealt with this and I think every single person I have coached or worked with has dealt with this, and I think every single person I have coached or worked with has dealt with this, like this idea of who am I to do this? I don't have. I don't have the authority, right. That's where that's the whole root of permission to kick ass. But I like to remind people and ask them okay, so was there ever a time that you read a book or you watched a TED talk or you, you did something where you picked up an idea that just made things click for you. It was literally the right idea at the right time and that allowed you to make some big changes.

Angie Colee:

Everybody has a story like that, right. One of my big stories is I'm homeless, or practically homeless, in LA and I spent 20 bucks back in the day at Barnes Noble before Amazon became the thing it is to buy a book I couldn't afford and became a copywriter just on a whim like that. Somebody said read this book, I went okay, I'm going to read that book. It changed my life. The right idea at the right time can change your life. What's the point that I'm trying to make in this? You're hearing me articulate on the fly.

Angie Colee:

Often we think we have to move mountains or that we need, I don't know, to jump through hoops before epiphany can strike. And it can strike when you're just doing the things that you're doing and somebody says the right thing at the right time. And the other thing that you said that really stuck out to me was the word allow. Like I wrote that down and circled it a couple of times that we don't allow ourselves to do things or we do allow ourselves, so like here. Here's the distinction for me I allow myself to wallow, I don't allow myself to dream and then take steps toward that direction, because I've got that story of who am I to do this? So allow and permission, I don't know. It all just seems like such wonderful synchronicity today.

Linda Perry:

I mean it is and I have to say I mean I go back to just things that you know, like that whole right timing thing. My, my mom knew she wanted to be a doctor at age six. Now imagine being raised by that and you're told that at age six and I went at age six, me playing with Barbies, going I don't know what I want to do and I spent the next two to three decades going. I still don't know what I want to do. And the reality is is that it sort of unfolded from a series of instances of picking up the right book, of being in the right places, of learning what was really mine and me that allowed me to get there. I mean I often say you know, if you give yourself permission and you collect enough no's, you're going to figure this thing out right, like your purpose and passion. So I think that piece of it is so important to remember. And that whole allow thing I love.

Linda Perry:

How you have the distinction is I allow myself to wallow right, like we allow ourselves too much in the sense of our stories, our limits right. How you know, I always think about identity foreclosure, like how many people say I'm not the kind of person who I don't. I mean. My pet peeve is literally somebody being like I'm an introvert, so networking or being out there is not for me. That's not it. That's closing the door, and introversion is also how we recover from things, but it's literally we're selling ourselves short. We're allowing that to be our narrative versus giving ourselves permission to stand in our greatness. It's like we almost have this false humility that we have to live behind, and that is not a recipe for a good life and it's not a recipe for showing others how to live too.

Angie Colee:

It really isn't, and this is gonna be a random tangent, but I had to write it down. I am not the only one that suffered from like paralyzing fear when asked what do you want to be when you grow up? I never had an answer for that as a kid, Never, not once. And the closest I came, you know, and you had to dress up once, or at least in the school I went to, in elementary school. I remember it was dress as who you want to be in the future. And so we've got a bunch of tiny, you know rocket surgeons running around and veterinarians and all of that stuff, and I dressed as a lawyer because my dad said you would argue with a stick. You should probably be a lawyer.

Linda Perry:

Same right.

Angie Colee:

I actually did go on to take the LSAT at one point because I guess I got all the way into my mid twenties and was still like none of this feels right. What do I even do? I don't know what to do, and these I mean. I'm 40 and I'm still no closer to really knowing what I want to do. But every day it feels like it gets a little bit closer, especially having awesome conversations like this.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, and I think that's okay though. So like I was 40 and this was when I was changing my career, right, and so you know it's interesting, this next generation has a little bit more permission to do that. I mean, I have 20 year olds. My daughter turns 24 tomorrow and I'll tell you she's already had four or five different tries at things.

Linda Perry:

She's been a paralegal, a coach, an editor. She's worked at the aquarium. She's teaching Like an editor. She's worked at the aquarium. She's teaching like she's like. Let me try on all these things and figure out who I am right. And I think we weren't always given that permission, because at some point in time we were told just suck it up, be happy you have a job, be happy you're doing something, happy you're not on the street, whatever it is like, and suck it up even though someone's treating you like shit. But they do have this mindset of let me allow myself this time so that I can actually grow into it, and I think there is something that's important to that allowing that really everybody can benefit from.

Angie Colee:

Lash. I wonder how much. Well, I don't wanna pretend like things could be solved, but I wonder how much more happiness we could potentially have if we allowed ourselves to try on different identities and experiment with that a little bit, because it has always felt like me to me. I agree with you that the younger generations are encouraged to just try things, especially since the old systems that we grew up with are breaking down. It is not get one career, stay with it for 3040 years, get a pension and retire. It is.

Angie Colee:

You know, you could be job hopping for several years before you find something. You could find nothing and have to make your own way as like a creator or something. So I don't know really where I was going with that, other than I didn't feel until recently that I could try different things. It was like why don't you have it figured out? You should be farther, exactly Like you said, shooting all over yourself. You should be farther than this. Maybe we're just trying stuff on for size and going. I don't like that. Or giving it a little twirl and going this feels really good. I'm going to stay here for a while.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, I mean it kind of brings us back to this whole conversation we started with even before we hit record. Like you know, is mindset work ever done? Like, is the work on yourself even ever done? And I'm still trying out identities. I'm still, you know, learning who I am in a lot of ways and and I think that's okay and I am still doing mindset work. I think people might think, okay, mindset work is something I show up and do occasionally, or I do when I'm struggling. I am always doing mindset work. There's integration times, there's growth times, but I'm always doing my work and I often say it's not really work, it's something I get to do, because the alternative means that I'm going to be living a life of patterns, of repeat patterns of pain, of really like, just like almost bumping up against different walls, and I think that's kind of the conversation we're having is. I don't pretend, as a mindset coach, that I'm like, well, I have everything absolutely together.

Angie Colee:

No, no, I have hard days.

Linda Perry:

I have days where I'm like, oh my God, there's there again, what is going on Right, like it's called human, and I think if we all approached that, we'd give ourselves a little bit of like, that space, so that we can ultimately like what you say kick ass.

Angie Colee:

Yes, oh, that makes me so happy. It's like for anybody that needs a reminder. The people that teach marketing have failed campaigns. The people that teach mindset have days where mindset is a real struggle. The people who practice medicine get sick. Like this is human. This is part of the process. No one person has it figured out, and if they are telling you they have it all figured out, they're trying to sell you something.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, when we decided to record this, I had, you know, I'd moved to Europe. It's been a little like a year and a few months. I actually had a really dark fall and winter like where I had to come to terms with things that I had been denying and ignoring, and it was ugly and it was hard and I did a lot of trauma work and I did a lot of. I went back to some really deep, deep work and I what's amazing about doing those things times or living through those times as you come out on the other side like I can't tell you how, all of a sudden, after really doing that work of looking how different I feel that I did even three months ago, looking inward. That's the power we all have. It's not just me, it's not just you. We all have that power. If we just gave ourselves, you know, the permission to look, or if we just stop being so scared and following fear, I think that's the place to start.

Angie Colee:

That distinction is to me, the epitome of empowerment. I remember, like I said, when I was losing my house in LA, I felt very, very powerless. I don't have money to do anything. I don't know a whole lot of people here. I mean like I had my classmates, but they're all broke grad students just like me. There's not really a support network here. I'm feeling very powerless, very hopeless, very alone.

Angie Colee:

But I do remember having one of those early conversations with myself before I stumbled onto mindset work and really started working on this, where it was like okay, but you're really good at solving problems and not sleeping all night because you're worried about the problems isn't going to help. So why don't we just let's? Let's sleep as much as we can and if we wake up again, that's okay. We'll just try and go back to sleep and then tomorrow it's, it's going to be okay. Who do I talk to? Who do I call? What can I do about this situation that I'm in and take back the power? And I'm trying to articulate on the fly. So everybody gets to hear me stumble in real time over these words. But one of the biggest pushbacks I get from people when I'm talking about this work is something along the lines of yeah, it must be nice, like you can afford this, you can do that, you have the space for this.

Angie Colee:

And I think being able to do those things starts even when you feel powerless, even when the odds are stacked against you, even when you're broke as shit, it starts with going okay, well, I can't control that, the job laid me off, I can't control the fact that my debt has spiraled out of control and, like I don't see a way out other than bankruptcy. None of these things that are out there are things that I can control anymore. That's in the past. As my dad says face forward, it's behind you. Time to move forward. Okay.

Angie Colee:

So, from this point forward, what can I do? Time to move forward Okay. So, from this point forward, what can I do? And it might just be as simple as okay, I'm going to recognize when the anxiety pops up. That's what I'm going to do. Okay, I'm going to talk to somebody about this problem that I'm dealing with and see if maybe there is a way out that I don't see, like we're never as powerless as it feels. And you've got to be willing to examine whether this is a story. You're telling yourself that I can't do anything about this, yeah.

Linda Perry:

I think that's the, that's the key right there, one of the things that you were doing when you're talking about this. You went what can I do about this? Who can I talk to? The worst word we can use when we're stuck is why. The worst word we can use when we're stuck is why, why puts us in story, why keeps us stuck in victim. Yet it is a default for many of us is to go into why me? Why is this happening? Why is the worst question? So, if most people work with me, I avoid the question why.

Linda Perry:

But what is in your control? What is the smallest possible thing you can do right now? It may not seem big because we think we have to go eat at the buffet to get the hell out of really dark times. No, what's the smallest possible first step? And you know it is. I have had that like while you're living this great life, you're in Europe. I have lived both a shitty life and I've lived a great life. I've lived a great life. I've had the gamut of it. I don't know whether you know it makes it sweeter, and I know living like where I am right now is great, and it's not.

Linda Perry:

It's not always promised, but I know that I have the tools to get through whatever it is, because it is. What am I going to do? What is in my control? What do I leave outside because I can't do anything about it?

Angie Colee:

Yeah, and it's my hypothesis. I mean, obviously I can't prove this, but we see people coming out of extraordinary, overwhelming circumstances and beating the odds right, and my hypothesis is that those are the people going okay, what can I do? Who can I talk to? How do I move forward from here? Versus, why is this happening to me? The sad news with why you know, especially since it gets you into your stories is that sometimes there is no why. Sometimes it's just happening. It's not even bad luck, it's just shit that happened and you got caught up in timing or or whatever. Does that make it any more or less impactful, any more or less meaningful? I don't think so. So, like, what does why have to do with this? How and what are way more important.

Linda Perry:

A hundred percent, and I think I hope anybody who's listening, if they catch themselves in those places, really the power is again being in awareness of. Oh, this is the story I'm creating around this and this is so unhelpful right now. That's it.

Angie Colee:

That's step one. And then, um, like, if I can layer into that this and this is one that I stumbled on quite by accident with my best friends, but probably like 15 years ago or so. We've known each other for over 20 years. At this point I can't even remember who it was, I just remember the outcome of this conversation. One of us was talking to the other, beating ourselves up like I'm such a piece of garbage it was probably me in grad school, if I'm being honest Like why can't I get this together? Look at so-and-so over here, look at so-and-so over there. I'm such a loser, I'm such a failure.

Angie Colee:

And we just instituted a rule in that moment of I can't talk to myself in a way that I wouldn't talk to my best friend. And like my best friend is somebody that I want a relationship with. I care about this person, I care about their feelings. I would never destroy their soul with intent. So if I wouldn't go to my friend and be like you, piece of shit, what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you look at this person over here? That's doing way better than you look at that person over there. But I'm cool talking to myself like that and I think I'm going to have an okay relationship with myself.

Linda Perry:

Go have a nice day.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, Seriously so, and it's. It's real hard work sometimes, especially on a down day or if business isn't doing well, or if I've had just a series of nasty people talk to me and I'm feeling a little bit dispirited right To to look at myself and be like, hey, you know what it's going to be. Okay, here's what you did. That was really awesome. Have you been in a situation like this before where you found a way out? Could we maybe try that again, Like the stuff that I would say to my best friend? Or do you just need to vent for a little bit? Do you just need to be heard and witnessed, or do we need to solve a problem right now? Okay, let's go into problem solving mode. So much better.

Linda Perry:

Yeah, and I want to make a distinction about what you've done there too, because what you know and I often will say, if it's not your best friend, would you talk to this child version of yourself like that, think of three-year-old you and how adorable you are, and like, would you yell at three-year-old you that way Hell, no, no-transcript, putting a positive spin on it. And it's not in. You weren't doing that. It's really about you know, cause a lot of people would be like I'm fine, it's okay, it's all like going to work out sunshine, snow, roses. We put this little layer on it.

Linda Perry:

And Debbie Ford used to have a saying and I'm sorry, justin Blackman, because he hates when I say this, but I'm going to do it anyway but Debbie Ford used to say that basically, that's putting ice cream on poop. A few scoops down, you got poop, basically. And so the idea is is that you really want to think about that? It's not, it's not positive in anything, but it's really about again, going back to this isn't solving anything. Me beating myself up how can I give myself a little compassion here? How can I reframe this, which is what you were doing? Reframe this and say how have I gotten through this before? How have I actually been successful before? What am I not really looking at here? Because I'm really narrowly looking at what's wrong and how bad I am. That's a whole different system and I think that's really that's the beginning of shifting your mindset out into a more healthy space.

Angie Colee:

Oh man, I kind of want to keep going for like two more hours. This has been a fantastic oh God. Yeah, we definitely could. It has been so comforting. Like that's such sounds like such a weird thing to say as a podcast host, as I hear myself, but like to know that I'm on the right track and I mean I've done a lot of deliberate, intentional mindset work, but just to have it reflected back at me from an expert is extra special validating today. So I'm feeling good, not great. We love that. Well, thank you so much for being such a fantastic guest. I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot of people writing in about this one, so why don't we tell the people where they can find out about how to work with you?

Linda Perry:

Yeah, you can go to my website, lyndamperrycom. I also finished a recent podcast series that you can check out, about the feeling of I am broken. It is a belief that many of us hold that stops us, so please check out the podcast. It's a mindset first podcast. It is on hiatus otherwise, but I am hosting special series and that is one of them, so that's where you can go check it out.

Angie Colee:

Fantastic. I'm going to make sure that there are clickable links in the show notes. Thank you again for being such a fantastic guest. I appreciate the hell out of you.

Linda Perry:

Thank you for having me, it was great.

Angie Colee:

That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick-ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high-octane dose of you can do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Permission to Kick-Ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, spotify and wherever you stream your podcasts. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.