Permission to Kick Ass

The importance of sharing your story with Julie Lilliston

• Angie Colee • Episode 181

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I just had the most incredible chat with Julie Lilliston, a PR powerhouse who's been kicking ass and taking names for 10 years in her own communications firm. We dove deep into the world of publicity, storytelling, and the head-trash that keeps us from shouting our awesomeness from the rooftops. Julie dropped some serious knowledge bombs about building relationships, finding your niche, and why sometimes the best thing you can do is just ask for help. Trust me, you're gonna want to grab a notebook for this one.

Can't-miss moments:

  • The "ick factor" that'll make potential clients run for the hills. Are you guilty of this?

  • So you finally worked up the courage to submit a pitch and *crickets*? Julie's got some mic-drop advice on handling media silence... 

  • The unexpected way Julie found her niche (and where to look if you've been struggling to find yours)...

  • Collaborators vs competitors: Julie and I share some STRONG opinions on where to focus your energy for faster growth...

  • The two magic words Julie swears will make your pitch irresistible to any media outlet...

Julie's bio:

Julie Lilliston is Founder & President, Julie Lilliston Communications, an award-winning nationally certified woman-owned public relations firm in Nashville that helps businesses enhance their reputation, build their brand and grow market share.

Julie Lilliston Communications ranks as a “Top 15 Public Relations Agencies in Nashville” by Up City. She is a member of PRSA’s Counselors Academy and served on the board NAWBO, Nashville Chapter as Past President. Julie is a recipient of the Nashville Business Journal’s Women of Influence Awards and an ATHENA Award nominee. She serves on the Women’s Enterprise Forum with WBENC as a member of the Forum Leadership Team and 1st Vice Chair of the Marketing Team.

Julie is an alumni of the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses program. She serves on the board of directors of Citizens Savings Bank and Trust Company, the nation’s oldest continuously operating African American owned bank. She received the Enterprising Women of the Year Champions Award in 2022. She was nominated as 2023 Supplier of the Year Class I by WBEC South. Julie has a Bachelor of Arts degree in English from The College of Wooster in Ohio.

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Angie Colee:

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine-figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Coley, and let's get to it. Hey, and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend, Julie Lilliston. Say hi, Hello, I love that background. It's like the first time we talked I saw this kind of office-y looking background. So well, tell us a little bit more about what you do.

Julie Lilliston:

Sure, yeah. So Julie Lilliston. Julie Lilliston Communications founded my own communications public relations strategic advisory company 10 years ago, so celebrating 10 years and very excited about that. But I work with a lot of small business owners to help them elevate their reputation within their market and in their industry and help promote their products and services. And I specialize in executive visibility, so working with a lot of CEO owners and getting them out there and sharing their expertise. And I also work with a fair amount of nonprofits.

Angie Colee:

Awesome, and congrats on 10 years. That's no easy feat.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, I mean, you know there's been a lot of bumps along the way and I'm sure we'll get into some of that, so it'll be fun.

Angie Colee:

We're going to talk about some of them 10 years. Are you doing anything special to celebrate, you know?

Julie Lilliston:

I really should. It's September 1st is when I started, so it's like I have a little bit of time. But kind of all this year I have found some avenues to, you know, get out there and talk about my business, which you know it's the classic case of the accomplished children have no shoes, so I'm not out there doing PR for myself, but this year, and including this podcast, I have made an effort to try to get out there and share my story a little bit more. So that's kind of how I'm celebrating.

Angie Colee:

I promise I'm laughing with you, not at you, because I feel like I've been talking to people lately about the there's a cobbler's kid situation over here. I haven't updated my website. I am notorious about sporadic email, despite being an email marketing expert. Like I do for others, I enjoy doing for others. Doing for oneself sometimes is a challenge.

Julie Lilliston:

It's hard, it's tough and that actually that, frankly, that's a lot of the reason why people reach out to me. It's really hard to do PR for yourself for some individuals. Others are out there promoting constantly and getting the word out about their everything, that they're involved in, everything that they do and how they get back to the community and others. It's a real struggle to do that. So they find it much easier in working with a partner that can push that out on their behalf. I'm sure you run into that in your world.

Angie Colee:

Oh, absolutely. Actually, I'm really curious about that. If you don't mind digging in, what kind of head trash are people? Do you know what their fears are around putting themselves out there like that? Where are they struggling with that?

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, a lot of it. It's interesting. It could be like imposter syndrome. Am I really qualified to be out there talking about this? And once I do, when I meet with clients and do a deep dive in their business and the messaging session, we really find out everything about their business, how they make money, where they focus about their clients, where they want to grow, and it's amazing all the things that come out of that because they obviously they're experts in their business. They really know their industry inside and out. They have the goods.

Julie Lilliston:

It's just sharing that publicly and you know, in a form that they might not be as comfortable with with media and you know understanding like what questions are they going to ask and where is this going and how do I do an interview? You know, and again, I just kind of work with with clients around that and and helping them come up with the right messages that work for them. It has to be in their words and be authentic and help them loosen up a little bit and just have fun and open up and share their expertise and by and large, they'll tell me that was really fun, that was a great experience and that's what I'm trying to get them to. It's all about building trust in the relationships, but a lot of it could just be, you know, am I worthy of this? So questioning their, not so much their expertise, but these opportunities that come.

Angie Colee:

I've experienced something similar to that effect, and it's no secret on this show that I have anxiety, like I'm always combating the voices in the head right. I remember the first time I was asked to speak on stage and I had such a like I don't want to say like extreme reaction, but that's the word that's coming to mind I felt called to prepare like nobody has ever prepared on this planet. I was about to do live breakdowns and copy questions marketing questions on stage and they were submitted in advance. I had a chance to review them in advance, so it wasn't like somebody was asking me something on the fly that I'd never seen before although I'm pretty good at that too but for some reason I was convinced they're trying to fuck with me, they're trying to throw me for a loop, they're trying to trick me. So I studied for weeks the most advanced, sophisticated, multivariate testing, different audience paths. I was prepared to answer any launch related marketing questions you could possibly throw my way and, to my utter shock I did not expect this at all Every single problem was marketing 101.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, Super basic stuff, and I was over here anticipating that I'm going to have to answer the most complicated questions of my career. This is when they're going to find out. I don't know everything, I don't know it all, but like answering the basic 101 level questions, people went oh, I never thought of it that way. They came and found me in the back of a dark ballroom and said oh, thank you so much for saying that. I had no idea I was missing that on my website. So I'm like most of it is us psyching ourselves out, Do you agree it is?

Julie Lilliston:

I totally agree with that, and women tend to over-prepare. And you hear all the time about how women won't go for job opportunities unless they have at least 80% of the requirements and under their belt. Men don't do that. They have maybe 50%, 40% they're going for it. And so I think it's the same kind of concept in interviews and those types of situations and over-preparing, and you really need to just know that, you know what you're talking about and just open up and share that and have fun with it. Try to loosen up a little bit, because that over-preparing it will drive you crazy and then it'll get in your head and then you're like, did I say the right thing, Did I not? And you know by and large most of these, especially TV interviews, you've got maybe three to four minutes. There's no time, it flies by in a heartbeat. And so just having in your mind you know what the general topic is, what are the one to two points you want to get across and let the rest of it just flow. I think that comes across much better.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, and I always have like one in my back pocket in case I don't know what the hell I want to say. That really only applies in like live interview situations where I don't have a buffer. Okay guys, here's a little inside baseball, right, and I don't have a buffer. Okay guys, here's a little inside baseball, right, and I don't know why I say inside baseball, because I don't even watch baseball.

Angie Colee:

But whatever, on this show, all of the shit that I've said that was a mess up has literally been scrubbed from the record by my incredible editor, james. Shout out to James. So I mess up on this show all the time, it's just that we edit it out. So if I lose my train of thought, which I have literally done in the middle of interviews on a live one, I would be like oh, you know what, I don't know where I was going with that. Do you have another question? Or I'll say something along the lines of that's a good one. I honestly don't know that. I have an answer off the top of my head. Let me ask you this and then I'll ask them another question and just kind of redirect it entirely. So I find just having one or two of those in my back pocket for when I inevitably lose my train of thought makes me feel a lot more confident.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, it happens, it totally happens. Or you just draw a blank and you're not really sure where to go from there to ask oh, could you repeat the question? And you're? You know you're thinking of an answer, because if there is something that they ask, that's that's off the cuff and you're not really sure you know how to respond. It's fine to say exactly how you just handled it, like, well, you know, let me tell you about this I'm not really sure you know how to answer that or, in my experience, and redirect it to what it is that you do know and what you can offer some expertise about, that's just a really good way to do it. But you know it happens, it just your mind can just draw a blank and you're in the middle of a sentence, and so you know, most people are very understanding about that. Yeah, and in a life situation, just kind of move on and move ahead and go from there. So that's awesome.

Angie Colee:

Well, going back to what I was asking about earlier with the kind of the blocks we talked about imposter syndrome, Is there anything else that comes up in your experience for people seeking this?

Julie Lilliston:

kind of publicity. I think the other thing is just, you know, being really present. So when you do have opportunities with media, just making sure you don't have the distractions that you're in a place that's, you know, quiet and all the things that you know certainly you ask of any of your guests to do Same thing. You know an interview. You'd be surprised if you're like, oh, can I call, can I do this from the car while I'm driving. You know, in some cases, if you have a relationship with that person, that may be OK and they're just getting like a quick quote from you.

Julie Lilliston:

But most, most times, it's not. You really need to have the dedicated time and focus and give it the attention it deserves, because you're not doing yourself a service by being distracted and trying to multitask, which you know. I think there was a story that your brain cannot focus on more than one thing at a time. So multitasking does not even exist, even though people like I'm really great at it, like no, you're crappy at about five different things, like it's you know it just does not exist.

Angie Colee:

So give it the focus.

Julie Lilliston:

Give it the attention, give it the time that it deserves, and you'll have a much better experience. Oh, absolutely.

Angie Colee:

And I just want to second that underscore it, highlight it for anybody listening. Look, I'm an ADHD person. I know that there are a lot of neuro spicy folks that are listening to this show. I focus best when I'm doing something like puttering around with my Bluetooth headphones vacuuming while also listening to something, so that I'm like I'm occupying the part of my brain that would normally wander with some sort of physical activity. So lest you apply that to like taking an interview in the car while driving. I have literally been talking to people on Zoom calls in the car when somebody almost killed me. So like don't, just don't like this. This was in Atlanta, where, in my experience, at least the drivers.

Angie Colee:

Just they have mentally decided that is my lane and they just slowly come on over without looking. And don't come at me if you're from Atlanta. Every city has its idiot drivers. I know this. But like that, that actually happened to me and I realized okay, yeah, you know, for interviews and coaching sessions, let's not be distracted, no matter how good of a driver you are.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, that's probably not a best best practice and you know, I actually just posted today that the hotter it gets, the more aggressive people drive. So doing things like that while driving, phone calls are one thing, Um, but yeah, I think an interview situation your mind, you're just not paying attention where you need to yeah, it could be totally a safety issue.

Angie Colee:

So yeah.

Julie Lilliston:

PSA.

Angie Colee:

Oh yeah. Well, I mean like you've been on the receiving end of this, but there's a whole lot of preparation that goes into this, at least from my end, for guests. Some hosts aren't as thorough as I am. I'm slightly anal, retentive, contrary to popular belief about how easygoing I am. I have a whole email sequence that goes out to people saying here's what you should do for sound, here's how to set up your recording environment. In case you've never done this before, here's how to think about some topics that we could talk about, that we can riff on. I have a whole preparation sequence and I still have people show up to record that don't have headphones, that don't have a mic, that go oh, my kids just got home from school. Is that going to be a problem? And I'm going all right.

Julie Lilliston:

Well, I know I'm not going to invite you back, but yeah, it's you know, there is a lot of preparation that goes on with interviews and TV appearances or any kind of medium print, radio, online, etc.

Julie Lilliston:

And usually what I do is work with the producer and with the host to provide them. Here are some talking points, here are the areas that we're going to focus on, and I like to include lots of stats and figures and things that they can call on as they're doing the interview. It's not set in stone, it's just to give them a guide and it also gives a guide for the guest so they feel prepared, they know the kinds of things, the types of topics have some stories, have some anecdotes and things you can share to bring it to life. But with the producer and with the host, like you know, they sometimes you know they'll be looking at it and kind of pull out a stat and go, you know, in a different direction as the conversation goes, and so I find it's just really helpful that way and then you get a lot more information that's relevant and has value and get that across in a short amount of time if you didn't do that. So there is a lot of prep that goes into it.

Angie Colee:

Oh yeah, I love this. I didn't know it was going to be this way, because all of these conversations unfold differently, but I kind of love how meta this conversation is about, like the act of preparing for something like this while we're doing it, while we're doing it in real time.

Angie Colee:

I I think that that's really really cool. So, okay, now abrupt left turn here. You were talking, before we started recording, a little bit about like expertise and niche and I know that that's a common conversation in business circles but like, how, how do you start thinking about that and applying that in this context with publicity PR?

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, I think it's so important, you know, for entrepreneurs to really be thinking about where can they make the greatest impact, where they have the greatest opportunity as a business, but where can they really penetrate? You know, really deeply and not spread yourself so thin. I think a lot of times like, well, I have expertise here and there and I can do this and I can do that, and a client asks you to do something. It's classic case and you're like I've never done that before but okay, I'll give it a shot, and sometimes that works out really well and that's great, and sometimes it doesn't like the sustainability of your business. It could be harder to achieve that if you're bouncing around in all different kinds of directions and providing different services or products that you know are kind of based on one particular client or one thing, and so instead of reacting to that, I think you know, for me I really tapped into and found a niche when I started working with women business owners and I noticed that you know the size businesses you know probably 2 million and up, you know 20 employees or more really did not have internal communications, marketing staff expertise, but needed that expertise. So that became an area for me to really focus in on and I just really love working with women business owners. A lot of times they're the founder CEO, and helping to get them out there and talking about the services and products that they have and how they impact their industry has been really fulfilling and really rewarding. And I found that for me at this stage, after spending my career bulk of my career in global agencies and taking those best practices and applying them to small businesses, that you know, that's what's really it for me is doing meaningful work and working with clients who are really making a difference, and to me, that gives me the energy and the focus and the inspiration it takes to do this. So I think that's really important to find that, whatever that is that really lights you up and you get really passionate about that's where you should be focusing your area in your business. Those clients where you're just you do wanna go above and beyond and go the extra mile for them, because they're responsive and you're getting great results and you work as a partner. Those are all very important things to me.

Julie Lilliston:

So the niche of working in this community of women business owners has just been a lot of fun, and I have to have fun. I don't know about everybody else in their work and in their day-to-day, but for me that just is really exciting. If I'm really having fun, then I know this is it. This is where I should be focusing and I kind of tapped into it kind of by becoming certified as a woman business owner through WeBank, which is the Women's Business Enterprise National Council.

Julie Lilliston:

So I encourage any women out there 51% or more women owned run, managed to look into that certification and they work with the Fortune 500 that are looking to find diverse suppliers. That is the whole goal. It's all about doing business, it's about growing your business, and so finding and working with those buyers and heads of procurement that are looking to source with women business owners has been great, and for me it's not so much going after the Fortune 500, but it's the 20,000 certified women business owners that are in that network. So, and there are a lot of other businesses out there that do focus on the other women business owners versus the Fortune 500. They're great and I love to be able to refer women to them because I've formed lots of great relationships with the heads of supplier diversity at different companies and so if they're looking for someone, I may be able to help them or make introductions, referrals, things like that, and that's all part of, you know, finding that niche.

Angie Colee:

Yeah, that, like that, and that's all part of you know, finding that niche yeah, that's incredible. I know that like niching is such a huge conversation, especially in the service-based industries. Like, pick your niche, that's how you signal to your people, right? I've always been super resistant to, I think, like a super specific niche. I gravitate more towards styles of people within a particular. So I work with a lot of experts, thought leaders, things like that. But they're they're all over the place, they're in all kinds of different businesses and different specialties. Like because I told somebody once who asked me what's your niche? Who do you work with? And I said that's a great question.

Angie Colee:

Um, who will ask people on a mission to do some good in the world? That's. And sure enough, if I look back over you know, the last 10 or so years in business since I said that thing that faithful, faithful day every person that I've worked with with I think like one or two exceptions was somebody that fits that description cool ass person, somebody I could chill and have a beer with after an event. I could crash at their house. They could crash at my house Like it wouldn't even be a big deal and they have a bigger mission of like I wanna help this group, I wanna help that group, I wanna serve 100,000 small business firms owned by women or whatever. The goal is right Cool people on a mission to do some good in the world, that's awesome and that really fuels you and that gives you inspiration, that's really important to you.

Julie Lilliston:

So I think knowing that then when you're meeting people that don't really fit into that category, you're kind of like, yeah, it's probably not going to be the best fit and there's absolutely nothing wrong at all in figuring that out. That's all part of the process, and part of owning your own business is finding out, okay, what makes the right aligned client for me and what doesn't so, and who doesn't and who fits into that. And so just knowing that is really important because that will help you as you grow your business. And you know exactly. You know when you meet someone and you're like, okay, this is it, you know this is the connection is there. I think that's also really important. You have to have that chemistry and connection with the client. At least I do so, you know, cause it's it's hard work, this is not easy work.

Angie Colee:

Well, yeah, and I mean like what you, what you do and what I do and the type of marketing consultant I do, I think there's a lot of overlaps, because I kind of got to crawl up inside your head and pull out all of the thoughts that you may not even necessarily know, that you need to share with people. Like I can't tell you how many times I've been interviewing somebody for a project, for one of the intensives that I do, and and they're like what, I don't even know why we're talking about this. I don't think it's that important. I was like I beg to differ.

Angie Colee:

I need to know about this for this reason and this reason and this reason. Like you don't even know what is the most fascinating thing about you, you've kind of shoved all of that shit up under a rug and gone.

Julie Lilliston:

Nobody cares about this and like, absolutely we care about this, give it to me things that people are really passionate and get emotional about experiences that they've had. It absolutely is critical to being able to be successful at what you do and what I do. On the PR end, some things just understanding that about a client is like how I'll frame or go after certain opportunities, because the story of being an entrepreneur is interesting in and of itself and they may be like, oh no, I'm beyond that Now. I'm growing, I'm moving up, I'm, you know, at this different level, but people want to know that they learn so much from hearing that type of story and so, if they're comfortable in opening up and sharing some of those and that's what it gets down to, for me it really is all about the story, and so we're like digging for gold constantly, you know, trying to find those little nuggets that we want to focus on you know as we're positioning clients.

Julie Lilliston:

So, yeah, it's really important to be able to do that, and I think that gets back to the trust issue having that relationship and trust with the client that they feel comfortable sharing with you, and then externally, and it all works together.

Angie Colee:

So oh, yeah, that's. I mean, that's another kind of inside baseball thing. Like I can zoom out and talk about the prep that I do for this show, one of the things that I do like here I'll show a quick glimpse of the remarkable tablet for anybody watching the video. I have a whole rundown that I go through with each and every guest before we start recording, give them a chance to ask me questions about what's coming up, how best to prepare themselves. Also even warn them that, like there may be a cat in here.

Angie Colee:

So if you see me do some weird thing where I'm like just don't, don't mind me, I'm yelling at the cats. But like one of the things that I tell people is this is just you and me talking. Right, we are recording it, but it's just you and me talking and I respect what you bring to the table. So if anything comes up during the course of this conversation I'm really good at leading these conversations, right, sometimes something sensitive comes up and after we stop recording, you go. I don't really feel comfortable sharing that, or that's not my story to share. I just you go. I don't really feel comfortable sharing that, or that's not my story to share.

Angie Colee:

I just you know we're sharing it in the moment and I tell people we'll cut it out. I've only had to enact that five times with with guests, but over the course of a couple hundred episodes. But I think, like because I take the time to set that up, of like whatever comes up is going to come up, but we don't have to air all of it. Let's people actually let down their guard a little bit more. Would you say that that's accurate?

Julie Lilliston:

Oh yeah, I mean that's a really respectful way of approaching it, where people feel that they can share openly and it's not a gotcha type of interview or questioning. And if they do say something or overshare or speak, you know, out of turn and think about it later to have the opportunity to say you know, that really wasn't okay for me to say, or I'd feel more comfortable if it, and then allowing that, I mean I think that that shows just a lot of respect for your guests and what you're doing here. So I appreciate that, because it you know it happens you get caught up in the moment.

Angie Colee:

I am definitely an oversharer. Awesome, abrupt left turn. All right, take me back to the beginning. So you mentioned kind of in previous answers the firms that you had been in before. So I assume, like you were in PR a long time before you went out on your own, can you tell me a little bit more about what that process was like for you?

Julie Lilliston:

Oh sure, yeah, absolutely. And I got into PR, you know, as an English major. So love to read, love to write, love to communicate, those are all my strengths and had no idea what I wanted to do and started working in the nonprofit side of PR and promoting organizations and then went to the global agencies where I spent the bulk of my career in tech in a tech practice group and doing a lot of business to business. So that's how I started working in executive visibility and helping to elevate their profile across software, hardware, telecom, all those industries back in the dot-com boom and then inevitable bust that happened and then survived that and went on the corporate side and so a lot of those best practices that I learned and I worked with some of the best in the industry. So I you know being able to then shift and take that and apply that in my own consultancy, which you know I started consulting after a layoff and was not interested in. All people told me for years why don't you consult, why don't you get in on your consult? Why would I want to do that? You know I feel like, you know the security of working with this global firm. You know that that's where it should be and that is was not the case at all. So you know, it basically was, you know, an opportunity for me.

Julie Lilliston:

Um, a friend had reached out who I had worked with and was like, hey, I'm starting my own venture, we need some PR help. And I started working with him and I was like, oh, this is it. You know, he's a small business owner. I was able to elevate his profile, get a lot of great coverage and telling his story and helping him, you know, build his business, and that, really, to me, was where I wanted to focus. I got so much benefit out of that.

Julie Lilliston:

So, starting down the path of I became certified and I got involved in a couple organizations and this is really where I started to focus on kind of building that network. And because it's hard when you start and you may not be connected, like, what groups, what organizations? Where should I be putting my time? You know you can do so many coffee meetings. Is it really turning into business? You know you just become exhausted.

Julie Lilliston:

And so you know I'm based in Nashville and there's lots of great organizations here that really support entrepreneurs, including an entrepreneur center and taking some of these courses and other groups like that, becoming involved in my local chamber and I mentioned about WeBank. That was really important because the regional partner organization is five states and so they have events across all these states States and being a part of that and going to those and expanding my network then became a national network where you know also I'm involved in NABO National Association of Women Business Owners great organization and I was able to team up with other women business owners and go after business together that have ancillary services to mine, so they may specialize in digital marketing and social media and content marketing and other areas that I don't focus mine, so they may specialize in digital marketing and social media and content marketing and other areas that I don't focus in. So being able to do that opened up doors for me to expand and go after other opportunities and so I bring them in on opportunities. They bring me in when they need the PR piece and that really has been a great way to grow my business. So that was really a critical and kind of a turning point for me when I expanded the network and you know different programs like the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses fabulous program to go through Small businesses in every industry, all different sizes, geographies Incredible. I encourage anyone to apply. It's 100% paid for by Goldman Sachs. I did it virtually during the pandemic and you come up with a growth opportunity for your business and vet that through this group and what a fabulous learning experience and connections.

Julie Lilliston:

And again, now that's another network that I'm a part of. So each thing like that, each learning opportunity, looking at how you can continually expand and get exposure and introductions and referrals, and then keeping these people in mind, the close circle out of each of these organizations that I'm involved with, for opportunities that I can refer them business or make an introduction for them, and I just feel that's just the way to do good business. I'll meet with people and have no preset um, preset, you know, preconceived notion of you know what am I getting out of this? You know they may just have some questions. Um, you know about PR and some of the things that we've been talking about that I could shed some light. Um, but again, you never know cause some of those people will come out of the woodwork and be like, well, I wasn't ready for you then, but now I am and you know so it's to me. It's all about those relationships and building those.

Angie Colee:

I love that distinction and I just want to highlight that for anybody listening. I mean, I know that most people who have made it a certain amount of time in business already understand this principle, but I think it's worth repeating that it's about the relationship, not what you can get out of the other person, and sometimes that means you're not getting anything from this relationship other than the relationship itself, and that has to be enough, in your opinion. Like, obviously I'm not talking about somebody who is an energy vampire or somebody who brings you down 10 levels or somebody who's lying to you that's not the same thing I'm talking about. But like, or somebody who's lying to you, that's not the same thing I'm talking about. But like, your connection to somebody isn't just what they can do for you, and like, if it is what they can do for you, they can usually tell People can sense when you just want to be close to them for what you can get from them.

Julie Lilliston:

It just it's an ick. Yeah, it is an ick, and I can definitely pick that up from people who, you know, approach me or that I get to know and like, okay, you know, they just want a lot of free advice and they're not going to pay for anything. They, you know how many proposals can I send, and then I see them execute my ideas on their own, you know. So things like that have happened along the way, and so being able to gauge that and know where to prioritize and where to spend your time, where it's going to be worth it in terms of just the relationship you know, because it has to be, you know, mutual in terms of respect, and otherwise it's just not worth it no-transcript.

Angie Colee:

And also, you already have a network and you don't know who knows who. So don't completely shut down one side of your life with people that already know you and, like you, that you've already built a relationship with over the years just to go build something from scratch over here.

Angie Colee:

And then the other thing that I had to have somebody connect the dots for me on was, I thought, because I'm a marketer and I put things into sequence almost as a second nature. So I'm thinking about a way that I can systematize keeping in touch with people, and you can do that to an extent on something like an email list where I know somebody came from here and they need to get over there and I know what the steps are. But I can't do that for everybody in my network because everybody's at a different place. So sometimes the easiest way to maintain that relationship is just like you said. Oh, your name came up in conversation the other day because this new person I met needs a PR person. Let me connect you. Oh, somebody I know just started a podcast and they're looking for guests. Let me connect you. That's actually keeping in touch with your network and there's no fancy sequence involved in that.

Julie Lilliston:

I don't know if any of that just made sense, but I had to have somebody explain that to me that is such a really great point because you were I guess we're conditioned to think about the new I got to get out there in this new group, in this new organization and these new people that I don't know, that I have, and we have all this wealth of resource within our own network.

Julie Lilliston:

And so I finally came to the realization one day, as we're talking about thinking about this, that you know, between, like the WeBanks and the NABOs and Enterprising Women and 10KSB, and all these groups that have had different seasons in my life, and some are, you know, continuing, some you know I was a part of, and then, you know, transition on that I really have all of the, everything I need to continue to grow my business, like I can pick up the phone and find that resource that I need I had, they're already within my network.

Julie Lilliston:

So it's just a matter of you know and this is a tough thing too, for for me and I think probably a lot of entrepreneurs and asking for help or asking for the advice or the input, or I'm thinking about this, what do you think? Cause we're just moving so fast and trying to, you know, push all everything ahead and moving forward that if we pause and take the time to reach out and people are more than willing to provide their input. You know, they've seen your business, they've watched you grow and learn and be happy to give input, happy to help or make that introduction and so just understanding the power of the network you already have and really leveraging that yeah, not in an icky way, but just in a way of asking for their input.

Julie Lilliston:

People love to do that. I love to do that when people reach out and that I have known and worked with or you know, colleagues or clients or etc. Oh my gosh.

Angie Colee:

Thank you so much for saying that, Cause I had that happen, right, we're. We're in business, and this is an exercise in constantly stepping out of your comfort zone, because once you get to a level and you've achieved a goal cool. What next? Now we're going to stretch our comfort zone again. Right, this is always growing. It's always uncomfortable. You gotta be comfortable with a certain level of discomfort as an entrepreneur, right?

Angie Colee:

So this ties back into a story that's coming to mind is the first time I went out and offered my services as a fractional CMO. So for anybody that's hearing the word fractional for a first time, this is kind of like part-time ongoing for somebody that's not bringing in a chief marketing officer full-time, right. I've run marketing departments. I've run copy teams. I've seen the totality of every kind of marketing channel and media mix that you can possibly see. So I'm very familiar with what a CMO does. But since I had never done it myself in an official capacity, I'm figuring it out with my clients, right, I know I can do the job, but I've got to figure out my own systems and processes. So when I got a little bit in my head with the first client, I went out to two CMOs that I know fractional CMOs and said, hey, and I said it exactly like that. I'm a little bit in my head, Like I know that these are the pieces that I need to solve for this person. We've talked about this in depth, I'm confident, but what kind of tools do you have, Like a tracking spreadsheet? Would you be willing to show that to me? One of them made me a video and showed me her behind the scenes tracking spreadsheet for her clients and said now, obviously you're going to be doing things differently depending on your methodology, but here's how I approach this. I hope that helps.

Angie Colee:

Another person actually offered to get on a call with me for 30 minutes and he reviewed my spreadsheet and was like I think you're getting way too complicated here. Maybe focus on these three things, right? Remember that this is going to be simplification and focus. That's what you're coming in here to help these people do.

Angie Colee:

Don't get so caught up in the like I need to make it fancy, I need to be impressive, Right, and so, like I, part of that was on me. I had to have the courage to ask and not just get sucked into that narrative of I don't know what I'm doing. They're going to figure me out, right. But also I had just going out to the network and trusting that the right people are going to show up for me and they're going to help me out and they're going to help me out from the goodness of their heart, right, it was like a five-minute commitment from one person, it was like a 30, and they are so high up on my goodwill list of like do you need clients? Yeah, absolutely, I'm sending them to you guys.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it took courage for you to do that and to be vulnerable. I think that's also something that a lot of entrepreneurs don't want to show vulnerability, don't want to go there and would rather not. And so you kind of muddle through and you found out that, yeah, you could simplify for them like what a gift that is from your colleague to tell you that, because if you have a client that's confused or overwhelmed, you know how is that going to go in terms of all the things you're trying to do in the project you're working on. So that was great advice to get and you took the time to solicit that. So I think that's really important.

Angie Colee:

I'm only just now realizing this, but it's also a sign of respect, too right, when you reach out to somebody and you say, hey, I'm trying to do something and I know that you've got experience in this. Can I ask you a couple of questions? And I've just made that part of my regular practice. Now, not too long ago, I actually discovered that there's another marketer who does a similar story intensive process to what I do, where you know, we spent a couple of intensive days where I interview you and like turn your stories into marketing, and I was like my initial reaction when I discovered that she does this was oh shit, somebody else is doing it. Like competition panic, Like competition panic, like the sky is falling Right. And after I sat with that uncomfortable feeling right Comfort, with discomfort for a second.

Julie Lilliston:

I went.

Angie Colee:

This is bullshit. She does it. So, one, she's already proven that the model works Right. Two, she's got a whole different vibe from what I do. She's definitely like serenity, calm, let the water flow, and I'm like kick down the wall, set things on fire, rock and roll Like there's.

Angie Colee:

There's space for both of us to do this, because certain people that want to work with me we probably wouldn't get along with the spa vibe and certain people, even though I love spas um, this is my dirty little secret, I will be there all day long so I can go set things on fire and people that want to have that high energy, that rock and roll, that rebel thing, they're going to want to work with me and I can refer people to her. So I actually I proposed that to her. I was like, hey, so I just discovered, actually, that we're doing something kind of similar. Do you mind if we hop on a call and I ask you some questions about what you're doing? I'm just really curious, and then maybe there's some people that I can refer to you as I learn more about what you're doing. And she hopped on a call with me and she told me about her entire offer.

Angie Colee:

We're technically, by all measures, objective measures competitors. But I don't think we're competitors, we're collaborators.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, there's plenty for everyone. That's how I look at it. Within different communities, within different geographies, within industries, there's plenty of opportunity and sometimes you can collaborate or, like you said, refer business. So I think that you know, in the way that she's doing is completely different from how you approach it, and so I think that's what you know figuring that out and realizing, being comfortable with that. Like you know, I see all the time you know competitors moving into the space and this focus, but they're not going to do it like I do or they may not be part of the networks that I'm a part of and the relationships that I've built for 10 years. So I mean it's there could be opportunities, like you said you know, to collaborate and I think that's one of the things in these industries and these fields that we're in.

Julie Lilliston:

Is it for me like being able to bounce ideas off of someone, that creative spark? You know I was used to being part of all kinds of leading teams, you know at a national level, and being a part of that. So you kind of miss that. You know, in the entrepreneur world and you may have some team members and things like that, but being able to have that creative energy and idea generation. That is really important in these spaces. So to have those colleagues that you can call upon just for that, just for some brainstorming or bounce ideas off of, is really important to kind of keep up the momentum, keep yourself inspired and engaged. And am I on the right track here or am I not?

Angie Colee:

You know, Absolutely Well, and something that's coming up for me as I'm listening to you is that I feel called to make the distinction too.

Angie Colee:

I know that there might be a subset of people listening to that who think, well, I'm not in a mastermind, I'm not in a networking group, and I feel called to make the distinction that only one of the people that I mentioned, the person that only one of the people that I mentioned, the person that got on the 30-minute call with me, is in a mastermind with me. The rest of the people that I mentioned, reaching out to and asking for help, are simply colleagues, professional connections and friends, people that I've met over the years. Like, I'm not paying them, they're not paying me, we just have a relationship. So, like, try not to do. Like I do, right, do as I say, not as I do, and put these mental dividing lines between. This is who I can call for help, and these are the reasons why. And these are the people that I can't approach for help, and these are the reasons why Just ask, because the worst that they can say is no.

Angie Colee:

There's no blacklist following you around. Well, like she asked for too much shit and we must shun her. That's not the way it works.

Julie Lilliston:

You won't be shunned.

Julie Lilliston:

I mean, I think that at the worst you get no response. And in my world, you know, getting no response happens every day as I'm pitching media and trying to get stories and like, just just no response and you know having to follow up and be diligent and so you know. Same thing if you're asking for input. I mean you don't want to harass people or stalk them everywhere, but you know, and you don't want to harass people or stalk them everywhere, but you know, give them an opportunity and if they don't respond, maybe now isn't the right time. It's not anything against you personally. You know they may not just be able to fit it in and like, oh yeah. You know, sometimes when I do call people, like, oh yeah, I meant to get to that and they'll archive. You know a lot of media and reporters and people I work with and producers They'll hoarders and people I work with and producers they'll keep things that I've sent like a year previously and then call me because they have an opportunity and they have something they're working on that's relevant.

Julie Lilliston:

So same thing if you're asking for input. You know, with colleagues and things like that, the timing could be a little off for them.

Angie Colee:

I love that you brought that up because I feel like that came up in one of my media groups recently, where somebody said I've been pitching and pitching and pitching and and I'm not getting any response and I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. And I said something similar to you which I think is so brilliant and so insightful, and I really want to unpack that for people that are listening. Often it's nothing that you're doing Like it's it's timing, or you know they may have had just a slew of similar story ideas recently, or they're completely overwhelmed just back from vacation, completely overwhelmed just back from their life blowing up. There are so many reasons why somebody may not be responding to you that have nothing to do with who you are as a person, or your worthiness or the angle of the story or the value that you could bring to them. We've got to be better at detaching from a no. A no is just a no.

Julie Lilliston:

It's not an indictment of your character and sometimes it could just be a not now, like they have other priorities, I think, particularly with the media. Just to talk about that a little bit. You know newsrooms have completely shrunk. A lot of reporters and editors, they're all working from home since the pandemic. They're not in newsrooms, um, anymore not as much anyway. They will be in the office occasionally, here and there. But so being able to form those relationships and know how to reach them when you do have something you think they might be interested in and be able to pursue that, so the cell phone and all that leaving messages on their office phone they're not even in the office, that's just the reality. Or they could be out getting stories and things like that and out in the field. It's just the reality. Or they could be out getting stories and things like that and out in the field. But you got to give people a little time to respond.

Julie Lilliston:

But I think the two things that people really need to keep in mind is the urgency so why now? Why is this relevant? And the relevancy, so the urgency why now and then? Why does my audience care about this? And so, if you can tie those things together and what your pitch and your angle is to make it relevant, and they need to cover this now, because this law has just passed, or this legislation or this issue, tying it into a larger trend really will help have it rise to the top.

Julie Lilliston:

And then, of course, you have to make it really easy, and having all of the spokespeople queued up and ready here's who I could offer you, here's who could comment on this. This is why this is a story that you need to cover now being able to connect all those dots for them, because they're so slammed and there are fewer and fewer people covering different beats and things like that, and really reading and knowing and listening to who it is that is the right person that you should be going after. That covers this industry. That's super important. So there are a lot of factors involved and it takes a lot of research and, of course, forming relationships and all of that. But, yeah, relevance and urgency are the top two things that you need to be able to tie it into.

Angie Colee:

And that's yet another piece of brilliance that, like you, just kind of casually dropped there and I want to highlight for people, thank you.

Angie Colee:

Like there was okay. So last year I had this lofty goal of like get on 40 podcasts by the time I turned 40. And I hit that goal. Part of that was with help from a matching service called Podmatch, and I can't tell you, when I went on there, I got immediately inundated by people who wanted to be on Permission to Kick Ass, which, on the one hand yay, more interesting people, absolutely. On the other hand, I actually shut it down after less than 48 hours. I stopped accepting guests on there because I was so overwhelmed by pitches, and let me tell you that 90% of the pitches were check out my profile and let me know if there's a fit.

Angie Colee:

Running a podcast is already a fuck ton of work. I'm not going to go out of my way to learn who you are and figure out myself how you could be a benefit to the show, and I think that that's what's happening in a lot of businesses, especially when we take it personally right. Don't they know? Can't they see from my body of work? Like, no, they're not going to, they're busy too.

Angie Colee:

Anything that you can do to make it easier on the person to say yes is going to be to your benefit, even if it's a little bit of extra work for you. And I'm not saying study this person and stalk them for two weeks and come up with the perfect, like manipulative master plan to get them to say yes. But I am saying, you know, as the host of a show where I get dozens of pitches a week and a lot of them are clearly from people who are sending the same copy and pasted letter to everybody that they've ever sent out. I've been called the wrong name, I've been used the wrong show. I've had people say that they're longtime fans and then pitch me a story that I would never air Like and if they listened and they were truly fans that they would know.

Angie Colee:

I literally have in my marketing. This is not X ways to Y or Z.

Angie Colee:

If you need to present there are other marketing shows for that. That's not what the show is. So anybody that actually went out of their way to, even if they just listened to 15 minutes of one episode, and say hey, I'm a new fan, I just listened to the first part of this one, but I felt compelled to reach out and here's a story idea I've got from you. I have so much more respect for that person than the spray and pray.

Julie Lilliston:

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Lilliston:

It doesn't work with other media outreach either, and they see right through that, and there's even people that will post things like here's the latest pitch I got, you know, check this out.

Julie Lilliston:

And because they're just inundated with it and so not taking the time to to really understand the platform, what they write about, what they don't, and if they just covered something, they're not going to cover that again immediately. So, even if you bring in different perspective, that's really hard for them to do, unless, again, you make it compelling enough. And here's a different angle that you didn't look at entirely, and here's why you need to focus on it, because it impacts this amount of people or whatever it is. So you have to have your facts, you have to state your case, you know, and maybe they'll do a follow-up. But if they've already written about something that's a lot that I hear you know from clients like, oh, we should be a part of this story it's like, well, they did that, let's reframe and let's think about you know, what could we bring them that they haven't done? Yeah, so that's important too, yeah.

Angie Colee:

Oh man, I just realized that we hit time. I have like three more questions that I want to ask, but I want to be respectful of your time and the listeners time, so I'm just going to end it here and say thank you so much for sharing your brilliance. This has been a fantastic episode. Please tell us more where we can learn about you your firm how to work with you.

Julie Lilliston:

You are so welcome. I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to sit down and have a discussion. It's awesome, so I appreciate it very much. But people can get in touch with me, you know, through my website actually, julielillistoncom, and if they'd like, if they would like a 30 minute complimentary consultation, they certainly can do that and just fill out the form and just say you know, I heard you on permission to kick ass and we could set that up. Be happy to talk through your biggest PR problem and see what brainstorming we can do to kind of solve that. I'm also on Instagram at Julie Lilliston, and, of course, linkedin, so connect with me there.

Angie Colee:

I want to make sure that there are clickable links in the show notes. And what an incredibly generous give right there 30 minutes for free with somebody who's an expert at extracting your stories and helping you figure out how to position yourself. I would take her up on that if I were you just saying so. Thank you again for being such an awesome guest and I appreciate you.

Julie Lilliston:

Thank you, it's been awesome, thank you.

Angie Colee:

That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick-ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high-octane dose of you Can Do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the Permission to Kick-Ass podcast on Apple Podcasts, spotify and wherever you stream your podcasts. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.